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salle/chambre du conseil

English translation: great cabin

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09:56 Apr 28, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Ships, Sailing, Maritime
French term or phrase: salle/chambre du conseil
Hi

From "my" 74-gun ship...

"Le commandant mange dans la salle du conseil"

and later

"La chambre du conseil est à l'usage exclusif du commandant et lui sert de salle d'état-major, de salle à manger et de salon."


From what I've read, the Great Cabin is divided into a day cabin, a dining cabin and sleeping quarters, none of which seem to fit. Perhaps "salle de conseil" *is* the "great cabin"? Or something as simple as a "council chamber" or "counsel chamber" although I haven't found anything to support that guess.

Your help will be greatly appreciated!
Sandra Petch
Local time: 12:29
English translation:great cabin
Explanation:
this may be a viable alternative as "stateroom" seems to the generic for a number of rooms aboard ship

Nelson explains his battle plan to his excited captains in the great cabin of HMS Victory on 29 September 1805. Watercolour by Daniel Orme. ...
www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server?outputFormat=print&setPaginate=No&...

Great cabin:
Found at the stern (back) this provides the most comfortable living space on the ship. Divided into 3 areas, it consists of the day and dining cabins plus the bed space. These were partitioned from the rest of the deck by wooden panels that could be removed during a battle. This would allow the great cabin to be turned into part of the upper gun deck
http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...

STEERAGE, an apartment without the great cabin of a ship, from which it is separated by a thin partition. In large ships of war it is used as a hall through which it is necessary to pass, to arrive at, or depart from the great cabin. In merchant-ships it is generally the habitation of the inferior officers and ship's crew. See also BIRTH.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/1275.html



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:39:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

First off, get away from the "captain's cabin" idea because "captain" was a rank and not necessarily the most important person aboard.

The only problem with "stateroom" is that there could have been several on a 74-gun ship.

The Victory link describes how the cabin was partitioned into three and how it could be cleared away so it was a very adaptable space, the link below describes it being used for dining and planning ('planning' being the idea of 'conseil'):

In the great cabin, you'll see Admiral Nelson's quarters. Imagine Nelson and his officers dining at the elegant table—or hunched over maps here to plan an ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1598800973...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:45:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Indeed, your 74-gun may not have had a "captain" but a "commander" or a "lieutenant":

The 74-gun ship eventually became the most popular size of warship as ... on 18 September 1805 under the captaincy of First Lieutenant John Pilford. ...
www.sole.org.uk/nelson.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 11:59:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your ship seems to have a "commandant", so a "commander" and not yet a "captain":

Captain
an officer in the navy ranking below a rear admiral and above a commander or lieutenant.
OED

However:

Captain
Also a courtesy title, a commander. M16.
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:00:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Commander
a naval officer ranking next below a captain LME
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:31:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is what Falconer says circa 1780 on the subject of cabins, and he does mention the "great cabin" elsewhere without giving it its own entry but he doesn't mention "stateroom" even though the OED dates the word to M17:

CABIN, (cabane, Fr.) a room, or the apartment in a ship where any of the officers usually reside.
There are many of these in a large ship; the principal of which is designed for the captain, or commander.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0246.html
Selected response from:

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:29
Grading comment
A tricky one. I chose great cabin because I've seen the "captain's cabin" referred to as this in several references and it avoids confusion if there can be several state rooms. Thank you (once again) Graham, and Irat.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2Captain's state-room
irat56
4 +1great cabin
Graham macLachlan


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Captain's state-room


Explanation:
But they would often use :"Wardroom" as for "The Officers'Wardroom"

irat56
France
Local time: 12:29
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Graham macLachlan: "stateroom" without "Captain's"//brave man!
23 mins
  -> Yes! You're right! Sorry! I will kiss the gunner's daughter! ;-)

agree  fourth: Can you explain the gunner's daughter ref? Was it on the gundeck that it all happened?
6 hrs
  -> Thanks! It was a punishment: the "culprit" was lashed on a deck-gun and got the nine-o-tail cat several times, and that was known as "kissing the gunner's daughter!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
great cabin


Explanation:
this may be a viable alternative as "stateroom" seems to the generic for a number of rooms aboard ship

Nelson explains his battle plan to his excited captains in the great cabin of HMS Victory on 29 September 1805. Watercolour by Daniel Orme. ...
www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server?outputFormat=print&setPaginate=No&...

Great cabin:
Found at the stern (back) this provides the most comfortable living space on the ship. Divided into 3 areas, it consists of the day and dining cabins plus the bed space. These were partitioned from the rest of the deck by wooden panels that could be removed during a battle. This would allow the great cabin to be turned into part of the upper gun deck
http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...

STEERAGE, an apartment without the great cabin of a ship, from which it is separated by a thin partition. In large ships of war it is used as a hall through which it is necessary to pass, to arrive at, or depart from the great cabin. In merchant-ships it is generally the habitation of the inferior officers and ship's crew. See also BIRTH.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/1275.html



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:39:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

First off, get away from the "captain's cabin" idea because "captain" was a rank and not necessarily the most important person aboard.

The only problem with "stateroom" is that there could have been several on a 74-gun ship.

The Victory link describes how the cabin was partitioned into three and how it could be cleared away so it was a very adaptable space, the link below describes it being used for dining and planning ('planning' being the idea of 'conseil'):

In the great cabin, you'll see Admiral Nelson's quarters. Imagine Nelson and his officers dining at the elegant table—or hunched over maps here to plan an ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1598800973...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:45:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Indeed, your 74-gun may not have had a "captain" but a "commander" or a "lieutenant":

The 74-gun ship eventually became the most popular size of warship as ... on 18 September 1805 under the captaincy of First Lieutenant John Pilford. ...
www.sole.org.uk/nelson.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 11:59:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your ship seems to have a "commandant", so a "commander" and not yet a "captain":

Captain
an officer in the navy ranking below a rear admiral and above a commander or lieutenant.
OED

However:

Captain
Also a courtesy title, a commander. M16.
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:00:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Commander
a naval officer ranking next below a captain LME
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:31:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is what Falconer says circa 1780 on the subject of cabins, and he does mention the "great cabin" elsewhere without giving it its own entry but he doesn't mention "stateroom" even though the OED dates the word to M17:

CABIN, (cabane, Fr.) a room, or the apartment in a ship where any of the officers usually reside.
There are many of these in a large ship; the principal of which is designed for the captain, or commander.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0246.html

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352
Grading comment
A tricky one. I chose great cabin because I've seen the "captain's cabin" referred to as this in several references and it avoids confusion if there can be several state rooms. Thank you (once again) Graham, and Irat.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hello Graham - I did consider "great cabin" but that seems to be the whole of the captain's cabin whereas this "chambre" would be just one part of it. What do you think?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  fourth: Industry, Knowledge!!
5 hrs
  -> thanks Fourth
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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