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pérennisation

English translation: perenniality

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:pérennisation
English translation:perenniality
Entered by: Christian Trottier
Options:
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18:13 Mar 10, 2002
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering
French term or phrase: pérennisation
This is the case where a word is used everywhere (14,500 references in Google) but I can't find a single dictionary that has it! If you find a dictionary/glossary with that word in it, please let me know.
The context is a Statement of Work. The supplier is asked to justify the use of a sub-contractor:
"Dans le cas d’une offre faite en collaboration avec un sous-traitant, le Soumissionnaire précisera de façon très explicite la pérennisation de la sous-traitance"
Christian Trottier
Local time: 02:38
continuity / perenniality
Explanation:

In the case of a tender submitted in collaboration with a subcontractor, the Tenderer shall very explicitly specify the perenniality of the subcontracting [arrangement].

======

It is used in this context...

From Termium :

Anglais :Sécurité informatique

continuity s


data continuity s PROPOSITION
continuity of data s PROPOSITION
data perenniality s CORRECT

DEF - The property of data the integrity of which is preserved through time. s

Français :Sécurité informatique

pérennité des données s CORRECT,FÉM,NORMALISÉ

pérennité s PROPOSITION,FÉM
continuité des données s À ÉVITER,VOIR FICHE,FÉM


DEF - Caractère des données dont l'intégrité est maintenue dans le temps. s
OBS - L'expression «continuité des données» est un calque. s
OBS - pérennité des données : terme normalisé par l'AFNOR. s






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 18:57:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is a reference for you...

ProduitsLa revue Ingénieries
... la phase de gestion durable par pérennisation de la végétation. Dans une ... of sustainable
management with the vegetation perenniality. In the second part, we ...
www.cemagref.fr/Informations/Produits/ingenieries/25.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-11 07:15:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB - You could also say \"sustainability\".
Selected response from:

Steven Geller
Local time: 20:38
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5perpetuation
Alexandra Hague
5 +3continuity (sort of)Mary Lalevee
4 +3perpetuation
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 +2continuity / perenniality
Steven Geller
5durationxxxPaulaMac
4 +1the perennity of the contract, the perpetual renewability of the contract
Colin Brayton
4 +1"Duration" = "In the event of an offer being made in conjunction with a sub-contractor.....zaphod
4the perennity of the contract, the perpetual renewability of the contract
Colin Brayton
4perpetuationOlivier Roland
4 -1for perpetuityRHELLER
4 -2confirmation
Guy Bray
2 -1guaranteeStephen Finch


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
perpetuation


Explanation:
Don't know if this can apply in this specialized context, but this is what my Robert Collins gives for perénnisation.
HTH,
Alix

Alexandra Hague
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 116

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Parrot: sounds good.
6 mins

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: See below
1 hr

neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
2 hrs
  -> perpetuation in the sense of to continue to maintain

agree  Marcus Malabad: this is the answer!
5 hrs

agree  FionaBrind
17 hrs

agree  Graham macLachlan: OED agrees with you
2312 days
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
confirmation


Explanation:
Oxford-Hachette doen't give pérennisation, it's true, but it has pérenniser & pérennité.


Guy Bray
United States
Local time: 11:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 819

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Steven Geller: I beg to differ with you, "pérennisation" means continuity (perenniality).
28 mins

disagree  ydmills: definitely continuity and not confirmation
1 hr
  -> OK
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -1
guarantee


Explanation:
the context suggests to me that the contractor needs to provide a continuing guarantee for all work. Just a gut feeling - can't you check with the client?

Stephen Finch
Local time: 19:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 26

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Steven Geller: I beg to differ with you, "pérennisation" means continuity (perenniality). Guarantee would be the translation for "garantie".
20 mins
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34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
continuity / perenniality


Explanation:

In the case of a tender submitted in collaboration with a subcontractor, the Tenderer shall very explicitly specify the perenniality of the subcontracting [arrangement].

======

It is used in this context...

From Termium :

Anglais :Sécurité informatique

continuity s


data continuity s PROPOSITION
continuity of data s PROPOSITION
data perenniality s CORRECT

DEF - The property of data the integrity of which is preserved through time. s

Français :Sécurité informatique

pérennité des données s CORRECT,FÉM,NORMALISÉ

pérennité s PROPOSITION,FÉM
continuité des données s À ÉVITER,VOIR FICHE,FÉM


DEF - Caractère des données dont l'intégrité est maintenue dans le temps. s
OBS - L'expression «continuité des données» est un calque. s
OBS - pérennité des données : terme normalisé par l'AFNOR. s






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 18:57:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is a reference for you...

ProduitsLa revue Ingénieries
... la phase de gestion durable par pérennisation de la végétation. Dans une ... of sustainable
management with the vegetation perenniality. In the second part, we ...
www.cemagref.fr/Informations/Produits/ingenieries/25.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-11 07:15:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB - You could also say \"sustainability\".

Steven Geller
Local time: 20:38
PRO pts in pair: 1246

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Olivier Roland: continuity
49 mins

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "continuity" perhpas the most universal
58 mins

disagree  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: Continuity means uninterrupted duration: uninterrupted duration or continuation especially without essential change. See MW dictionary. Somehow, you have managed to misunderstand the whole context.
1 hr
  -> I did not misunderstand anything, Ms. Bonmenu, the misunderstanding is on your end. Please try to be more careful.

agree  Parrot
7 hrs

disagree  xxxPaulaMac: None of your citations fit this context
8 hrs
  -> I sincerely believe that you are mistaken, Madam.

agree  FionaBrind
16 hrs
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
for perpetuity


Explanation:
pérenniser (dictionnaire francais): rendre durable, eternel

pérennisation is a form of pérenniser

"will note explicitly that the sub-contracting agreement is for perpetuity"

RHELLER
United States
Local time: 12:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1582

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
1 hr

disagree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I believe there is a difference between "perpetuity" (forever) and the "perpetuation" of something (the continuation of).
14 hrs
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57 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
"Duration" = "In the event of an offer being made in conjunction with a sub-contractor.....


Explanation:
the bidder will explicitly specify the duration of the sub contract.

In this case, it means for the bidder to bring his sub-contractor along for a pre-defined period,not in perpetuity.

"Duration"

zaphod
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 440

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: This is the correct translation.
26 mins
  -> Thanks.

neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Not so much specifying the duration, but rather the fact that an existing set-up is to continue. ("pérennisation" can be translated by "perpetuation" (continuing nature of a state of affairs) - I agree, not the same thing as"in perpetuity"(never-ending).
39 mins
  -> Agreed, perpetuation is cool too. Kind of a fifty cent duration.

disagree  Steven Geller: I beg to differ, "pérenisation" cannot be construed to mean "duration" (durée).
1 hr
  -> Of course it can

agree  xxxPaulaMac: Yup, this is it. Sorry, I added on at the end
8 hrs
  -> Merci
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
perpetuation


Explanation:
I agree with the first answerer. Steven's continuity is fine too, in my view. Where a bid includes a sub-contractor, the bidder has to make it perfectly clear why he needs one. All sides need to know what they are letting themselves in for.

"In the event of a bid including a sub-contractor, the Bidder shall submit precise details of the pepetuation of the sub-contract."

- pérennisation = perpetuation (Robert & Collins Senior 2000, p 657, 3rd column)
[- pérennisation = making something stick (United Nations Development Programme)]

http://capacity.undp.org/focus/sustainability/tors.htm
http://capacity.undp.org/focus/sustainability/tors_fr.htm


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: per·pet·u·ate
Pronunciation: p&r-'pe-ch&-"wAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin perpetuatus, past participle of perpetuare, from perpetuus
Date: 1530
: to make perpetual or cause to last indefinitely <perpetuate the species>
- per·pet·u·a·tion /-"pe-ch&-'wA-sh&n/ noun
- per·pet·u·a·tor /-'pe-ch&-"wA-t&r/ noun

Examples :

http://www.kalzip.co.uk/install/gable/

The Commercial Manager of Gable, Tony Konieczny, is convinced that the company's success and prospects for the future are based in large on the development and sustained perpetuation of long-term relationships with clients, contractors and suppliers.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-11 09:56:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

When you think about the English meaning to render this one accurately in English, then I think it important to differentiate between \"perpetuity\" (which means for ever and is infinite) and the \"perpetuation of something\" which boils down to being another way of saying something continues. I think also that it ought to be distinguished from \"reconduction\", which, as I udnerstand it (I may be wrong), means to renewal of an existing contract which is about to come to an end.

Perpetuation, as I read it, is a reference to the parties wish to continue functioning as they are doing - which may involve renewing a contract, drafting another one, whatever. It is the express wish to continue working as a team.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4412

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: Dans ce cas, ne faudrait-il pas parler de reconduction en français ...
20 mins
  -> Pour moi, la reconduction signifie le renouvelement d'un contrat existant arrivé à terme, alor s que pérennisation, pour moi, est un peu moins spécifique, signifiant que les parties ont envie de continuer à travailler ens.? nouveau ou même contrat

neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
40 mins
  -> Exactly. Perpetuity means for ever, the perpetuation of sthg means the continuation of sthg ... which is why I have posted "perpetuation".

agree  Parrot: Nothing lasts forever. To "perpetuate" is simply to keep alive, extend, sustain, conserve (Oxford Thesaurus).
3 hrs

agree  Marcus Malabad: agree with perpetuation, meaning 'to extend the life of'
3 hrs

agree  Olivier Roland: continuity sounds fine Steven
17 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
perpetuation


Explanation:
pérennisation(nf)=perpetuation
pérenniser(vt)=to perpetuate
pérennité(nf)(institution,goûts)durability;(tradition)continuity,perpetuity;(lignée)continuity.


    Le Robert & Collins
Olivier Roland
France
Local time: 20:38
PRO pts in pair: 33

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: This suggests going on forever..see Etymology: Middle English perpetuel, from Middle French, from Latin perpetuus uninterrupted, from per- through + petere to go to in MW dictionary.
28 mins
  -> not only, see OXFORD

neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
47 mins
  -> Steven perpetuation does only mean that, but continuity is fine they are both fine in this context only perpetuation is a Le Robert& Collins reference

agree  Parrot: And to perpetuate the human race isn't going to guarantee its long-term planetary survival either!!!!
6 hrs
  -> sharp Cecilia
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the perennity of the contract, the perpetual renewability of the contract


Explanation:
"perennity" seems to be an accepted legal equivalent in English for the French term, meaning continuity, durability over time, as others have suggested; the closest english verb is "to perennate," meaning to endure over time, as found in a number of English dictionaries, including www.m-w.com. The closest term I can find is "perpetual renewability" Not exactly the authoritative refence you were looking for, sorry!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-10 20:04:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

perpetuation, in a general sense?


    encyclo.findlaw.com/5830book.pdf (search on "perennity")
    Reference: http://www.xrefer.com/results.jsp?shelf=business+%26+law&ter...
Colin Brayton
Local time: 14:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: the contract is either perpetual or renewable. Don't think it can be both at the same time.
25 mins

neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
38 mins

agree  Parrot
6 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the perennity of the contract, the perpetual renewability of the contract


Explanation:
"perennity" seems to be an accepted legal equivalent in English for the French term, meaning continuity, durability over time, as others have suggested; the closest english verb is "to perennate," meaning to endure over time, as found in a number of English dictionaries, including www.m-w.com. The closest term I can find is "perpetual renewability" Not exactly the authoritative refence you were looking for, sorry!


    encyclo.findlaw.com/5830book.pdf (search on "perennity")
    Reference: http://www.xrefer.com/results.jsp?shelf=business+%26+law&ter...
Colin Brayton
Local time: 14:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Steven Geller: I would not translate it as perpetuation, which makes me think of a "perpetual" building society - something everlasting. What is meant is that the subcontractor will be around for the term of the agreement. In my view that does not evoke perpetuity.
35 mins

agree  Parrot: Do we have to be immortal to perpetuate the human race?
3 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
continuity (sort of)


Explanation:
In my view, you have to rewrite the sentence. It means that the party that is going to use a sub-contractor must make some commitment or provide some evidence that there are not going to be 20 different sub-contractors one after another. "perennité" is always a difficult word to translate. In my own glosssary I have "continuity" and "long-lasting nature".
HTH

Mary Lalevee
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:38
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 318

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  John Garside: they want to make sure that the guys going to be around to do the work
57 mins

disagree  Steven Geller: I beg to differ, Mary, the issue is these "consortia of convenience" that bid on such contracts have no glue. The "Tendering Authority" wants justification that it is a real relationship,real, sustainable, and deliverable over time -- that is all.
1 hr

agree  Parrot: That's what they all said.
2 hrs

agree  xxxPaulaMac: Yes John Garside, that is exactly what they want
7 hrs

agree  FionaBrind
14 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
duration


Explanation:
I think everyone is getting too hung up on the word perennisation - we need to figure out what the whole sentence means. In terms of bids, tenders, etc., I think they mean, in the event of a bid that involves subcontracting, the Bidder shall clearly specify the duration of the subcontract.

xxxPaulaMac
PRO pts in pair: 324

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.: I think this is absolutely right.
7 hrs

disagree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: None of the sources I have indicate that this term can be read to mean "duration". All indicate a relation with an ongoing or continuing nature of something. Admittedly, this would fit in context, but I think we are tied to the meaning of the original.
10 hrs
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