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  3. Wine / Oenology / Viticulture

fit frapper une bouteille

English translation: dates & bullets

23:05 Apr 16, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Wine / Oenology / Viticulture / champagne
French term or phrase: fit frapper une bouteille
V'vre l'Aï ! vive la liberté !, ont écrit Lurine et Bouvier, avec l'explication suivante de ce qui se serait passé aux Tuileries : Un courageux ouvrier, un héros des trois jours, monta sans hésiter sur le siège fleurdelisé de Charles X, et se mit à trôner en ingurgitant du vin de Champagne. Ce fut là le triomphe définitif de la démocratie; ce fut là l'avènement populaire du vin de Champagne (374). L'anecdote est séduisante. Hélas ! on ne la trouve dans aucune des relations historiques de la Révolution de juillet. Peut-être doit-on donner davantage crédit à Eugène Briffault qui écrit ce qui suit dans Les Français peints par eux-mêmes : En juillet 1830, un viveur fit frapper une bouteille de vin de Champagne à la porte d'un marchand de vins, devant le Louvre, sous le feu des soldats suisses; il la but avec quelques combattants et il se rua à l'attaque.

OK, so its the July Revolution and they are all running about and then one of them "knocks a bottle of champagne on a wine merchant's door"?
I know we are looking for symbolism and all but can someone tell me what actually is being suggested here?
Mark Nathan
France
Local time: 05:49
English translation:dates & bullets
Explanation:
The event recounted was in 1830. When was this written?

Like others, I find the idea of chilling a bottle of champagne hard to swallow. Were they sitting there waiting for the bottle to cool down? Was there ice freely available in that location?

Note that the Larousse Lexis gives the first recorded occurrence of "frapper" in the sense of chilling Champagne or similar wines as 1835.

Like others, I suspect "frapper" in your text refers to taking the top off the bottle in a rough fashion, possibly with a sword or similar(I've perfected the technique), possibly by simply cracking the neck off on a brick wall, etc.

It's also strange that he "FIT frapper" this bottle, rather than "frapper" it himself. Maybe he crouched behind the window, held the top of the bottle aloft and "FIT frapper une bouteille de vin de Champagne ... sous le feu des soldats suisses", i.e. tested the accuracy of the opponent's fire by HAVING them shoot the top off.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 53 mins (2005-04-18 00:58:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I guess he stood to one side of the wine merchant\'s DOOR and held the bottle out in the line of fire.
Having established that the enemy could shoot straight - which I fear might not have been the case of this \"viveur\" and his companions after a bottle (or two?) - it would then have been suicidal to rush out and attack. Ah, the impetuous French!
Selected response from:

Bourth (X)
Local time: 05:49
Grading comment
I have too many doubts about the chilled version. It just seems too ridiculous. Bourth wins for 'best film' even the significance of the wine merchant is left unexplained. BTW I did see Charlie's ramblings and "crack open" is actually in the end how Itranslated it....
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +8cool in ice
sarahl (X)
4 +2dates & bullets
Bourth (X)
4 +1broke open a bottle of champagne
cchat
4I would translate by "open"
lien


Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +8
cool in ice


Explanation:
that's what frapper means for wine. however, ice is way too cold for champagne.

sarahl (X)
Local time: 20:49
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Martine Brault: ice is way too cold for most wines ;o) - une connaisseur je constate. Mais c'est tout de même vicieux de le faire "à la porte" pour confondre le lecteur. Never underestimate the French when it comes to the "dive bouteille"
5 mins
  -> le peuple claiming its right to champagne? lol they must have been really drunk to do that under fire.
agree  Kate Hudson (X)
27 mins
  -> dank U, Kate!
agree  Charlie Bavington: seems reasonable. My inane rambling is hidden. I'd sort of overlooked the "faire frapper" construction. Hope you didn't see it :-) // 'cos I decided it was nonsense :-)
40 mins
  -> why did you hide your answer? parallel thinking is always useful.
agree  Anna Maria Augustine (X): cool in a bucket of ice for a short time
1 hr
agree  Abu Amaal (X): Voici la méthode préconisée par le Cuisinier national de Viart pour frapper une bouteille de champagne : http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:VUhhnoujHVEJ:www.umc.fr/b...
5 hrs
  -> merci !
agree  Gayle Wallimann
8 hrs
  -> thanks Gayle!
agree  Richard Benham: Whether ice is too cold for champers depends rather on how long you leave it in.
9 hrs
  -> don't look at me, I don't like bubbles in my booze!
agree  Tony M: I kind of imagine he sort of left it in the doorway to chill whilst fighting... // Actually, I DO quite often leave wine out on the window-sill to cool ;-))
11 hrs
  -> is that the way you do it? ;-)
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
broke open a bottle of champagne


Explanation:
"sabrer le champagne" has often been falsely transmitted as "sabler le champagne": in fact it means opening the bottle with a sabre, cutting the neck of the bottle which is otherwise difficult to open.
It may also be referring to the tradition of launching a ship by swinging a bottle of champagne against it.
I'd go with the first option.

cchat
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  lien: I thought about that, but had a viveur a sabre ?
4 hrs
  -> he must have had a weapon of some sort to "ruer à l'attaque"
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I would translate by "open"


Explanation:
Ou il manque des mots, ou c'était peut-être un façon particulière à l'époque d'ouvrir un bouteille.

lien
Netherlands
Local time: 05:49
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
dates & bullets


Explanation:
The event recounted was in 1830. When was this written?

Like others, I find the idea of chilling a bottle of champagne hard to swallow. Were they sitting there waiting for the bottle to cool down? Was there ice freely available in that location?

Note that the Larousse Lexis gives the first recorded occurrence of "frapper" in the sense of chilling Champagne or similar wines as 1835.

Like others, I suspect "frapper" in your text refers to taking the top off the bottle in a rough fashion, possibly with a sword or similar(I've perfected the technique), possibly by simply cracking the neck off on a brick wall, etc.

It's also strange that he "FIT frapper" this bottle, rather than "frapper" it himself. Maybe he crouched behind the window, held the top of the bottle aloft and "FIT frapper une bouteille de vin de Champagne ... sous le feu des soldats suisses", i.e. tested the accuracy of the opponent's fire by HAVING them shoot the top off.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 53 mins (2005-04-18 00:58:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I guess he stood to one side of the wine merchant\'s DOOR and held the bottle out in the line of fire.
Having established that the enemy could shoot straight - which I fear might not have been the case of this \"viveur\" and his companions after a bottle (or two?) - it would then have been suicidal to rush out and attack. Ah, the impetuous French!

Bourth (X)
Local time: 05:49
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 156
Grading comment
I have too many doubts about the chilled version. It just seems too ridiculous. Bourth wins for 'best film' even the significance of the wine merchant is left unexplained. BTW I did see Charlie's ramblings and "crack open" is actually in the end how Itranslated it....

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Gayle Wallimann: I like this version too. Very exciting!
10 mins
agree  cmwilliams (X): very good!
2 hrs
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