Kronhäupter

English translation: (the) nobility

11:07 Jul 7, 2020
German to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Schlosslichtspiele
German term or phrase: Kronhäupter
"beginnt mit den Kronhäuptern aus dem Jahr 1913 in Sankt Petersburg" - the sentence comes from the Karlsruhe Schlosslichtspiele copy for the 2020 show but has nothing to do with the format of the show. I think I should know the English term, it's on the tip of my tongue, but can't find a translation ANYWHERE.
Heidi Newby-Rose
South Africa
Local time: 08:17
English translation:(the) nobility
Explanation:
...might also work in the phrase you cite...?

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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2020-07-09 05:08:17 GMT)
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I don't believe this means crowned kings & queens (or heads of state exclusively), but more in the way of 'aristocrats' in general.

As cited from "The Russian ball, a cultural phenomenon":
"Court balls usually took place in St. Petersburg, and they were more of a social duty for aristocrats than for fun. Attendance for those invited was compulsory, and only those with serious illness or in mourning could miss the ball.
Besides members of the tsar's family, gentry, civil officials, noble foreigners, and guard officers (two from each regiment) had to come as well. They were needed as dance partners, as all aristocratic families had to bring their wives and daughters."
https://www.rbth.com/longreads/russian_balls/

Also listed elsewhere as:
"BALL AT THE ASSEMBLY OF THE NOBILITY IN SAINT PETERSBURG IN 1913, FOR THE 300 YEARS OF THE ROMANOV DYNASTY"
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ball_in_St._Petersbu...


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Note added at 2 days 11 hrs (2020-07-09 23:05:20 GMT) Post-grading
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Follow-up in response to the closed question:
Before any paintings /images were even mentioned, the asker had clearly rejected the 'popular' answer, and in these very words:
"By playing around in leo.org I have now found "gekroente Häupter", translated first as "crowned heads". I could have said that, but it just sounds SO flat and uninspired, whereas I suspect the German term has the slightest element of irony to it".

Going to hugely excessive lengths, via a late reference entry, to overturn the asker's opinion is not only unprofessional, but a willful attempt to manipulate the Kudoz process entirely.
Unfortunately, Herr Vrooman has extensive prior form in this particular direction.
Selected response from:

Chris Pr
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:17
Grading comment
If I absolutely HAVE to make a choice. Everyone has been most helpful and I really appreciate your time and efforts.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +7crowned heads
Lancashireman
3 +1Royalty
Carmen Lawrence
2(the) nobility
Chris Pr
Summary of reference entries provided
Actual research
Björn Vrooman

Discussion entries: 15





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +7
crowned heads


Explanation:
Is this about a gathering of monarchs (St Petersburg 1913)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowned_heads_of_Europe_(phras...

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: https://www.musicjinni.net/Wi_iZWXNQ_M/Schlosslichtspiele-Ka...
39 mins
  -> Thanks for the ref

agree  Anne Schulz
1 hr

agree  Klaus Beyer
1 hr

agree  AllegroTrans: perhaps add "of State"
3 hrs

agree  Edith Kelly
4 hrs

agree  Michael Martin, MA: Yeoman's work-:)
5 hrs

agree  Ramey Rieger: Yes, sire// Revolting
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Hook, line and sinker
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Royalty


Explanation:
I suspect they are referring to the Royal persons who lead the parade.

Carmen Lawrence
Greece
Local time: 08:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: 'Royalty' is generic and includes lesser members of royal families, the text here refers to (royal) heads of State
4 hrs

agree  Chris Pr: Nothing wrong at all about 'royalty', in fact we might even add 'nobility' as a further viable option to the asker....
7 hrs

neutral  Edith Kelly: with AllegroTrans
16 hrs
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1 day 2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
(the) nobility


Explanation:
...might also work in the phrase you cite...?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2020-07-09 05:08:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don't believe this means crowned kings & queens (or heads of state exclusively), but more in the way of 'aristocrats' in general.

As cited from "The Russian ball, a cultural phenomenon":
"Court balls usually took place in St. Petersburg, and they were more of a social duty for aristocrats than for fun. Attendance for those invited was compulsory, and only those with serious illness or in mourning could miss the ball.
Besides members of the tsar's family, gentry, civil officials, noble foreigners, and guard officers (two from each regiment) had to come as well. They were needed as dance partners, as all aristocratic families had to bring their wives and daughters."
https://www.rbth.com/longreads/russian_balls/

Also listed elsewhere as:
"BALL AT THE ASSEMBLY OF THE NOBILITY IN SAINT PETERSBURG IN 1913, FOR THE 300 YEARS OF THE ROMANOV DYNASTY"
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ball_in_St._Petersbu...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 11 hrs (2020-07-09 23:05:20 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Follow-up in response to the closed question:
Before any paintings /images were even mentioned, the asker had clearly rejected the 'popular' answer, and in these very words:
"By playing around in leo.org I have now found "gekroente Häupter", translated first as "crowned heads". I could have said that, but it just sounds SO flat and uninspired, whereas I suspect the German term has the slightest element of irony to it".

Going to hugely excessive lengths, via a late reference entry, to overturn the asker's opinion is not only unprofessional, but a willful attempt to manipulate the Kudoz process entirely.
Unfortunately, Herr Vrooman has extensive prior form in this particular direction.

Chris Pr
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Grading comment
If I absolutely HAVE to make a choice. Everyone has been most helpful and I really appreciate your time and efforts.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Cilian O'Tuama: Was that follow-up really necessary? For my part, Björn's contributions here and elsewhere are unobjectionable. Maybe you're reading too much into it, Chris?
1 day 10 hrs
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Reference comments


1 day 5 hrs peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: Actual research

Reference information:
Heidi,

Instead of being bullsh'tted into believing this is some random picture from the internet, how about listening to the guy who called ZKM (and talked to a really nice lady)?

Apparently, most of us were just watching the first half of the Vimeo vid.

Skip to 12:39: https://vimeo.com/342013925

You'll see it on the left in the video.

It's not a painting. It's a movie:
https://mubi.com/de/films/the-fall-of-the-romanov-dynasty

It was made in 1927 but includes footage from the years 1913-1917.

"A documentary film using archive material to portray a chronology of Russian history from 1913 to the October Revolution of 1917, which saw the fall of the Russian royal family, the Romanovs, and the establishment of Communist rule."
https://www.worldcat.org/title/fall-of-the-romanov-dynasty/o...

Additional info:
"With revolution at home and catastrophic failure in the First World War abroad, the Romanov dynasty, which had celebrated its third century in power in 1913, came to a swift end."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2018/07-...

"Brief chronology of main events of the Fall of the Romanov Dynasty 1913 May, festivities for the 300th anniversary of the house of Romanov."
https://notes.cendari.dariah.eu/cendari/ARG_The_Fall_of_the_...

"In 1913 the dynasty celebrated 300 years of Romanov rule. Virtually the entire Imperial family made an extensive tour of the sites associated with the events of 1613, including the Ipatiev Monastery in Kostroma, where Mikhail Romanov received the crown. This tour was successful or unsuccessful depending on the political views of the person asked. Hundreds of thousands of people participated in the celebration and it took on aspects of a religious pilgrimage for some."
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/petersburg1900/44.html

Use it or don't. Just don't tell me this random 'picture parade' is research. It's not.

Best

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2020-07-09 10:10:49 GMT) Post-grading
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Hello Heidi,

"...and simply wasn't able to do all the research." Fine with me; that's what ProZ is for. I was talking about people who first attack others for not doing research, but seem incapable of actual research themselves (even after I got it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak).

This random word search on Google is not helpful. Not a painting, not a drawing and no focus on any ball. Adding more references like this just proves some don't do their homework.

Here's the movie on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-jz6Xr8SUc&t=1283s

Skip to 10:16. It says "nobility at the Court," but this was not the part they played at the event.

Skip to 21:45. That's the right one. It says: "The imperial court." And a quick look at Google Books will confirm that Kronenhäupter only refers to "Herrscher," not anyone lesser than that. It's a simple compound noun in German. You did say you know what Kronhäupter means.

If at all, they may be thinking about the imperial family. I could have written ZKM (it was suggested to me to email them to ask for more details), although I thought it was more important to you to know what artwork was referred to and what part of it was depicted at the event.

To be honest, I don't believe they chose the best word in this context.

Best and enjoy your day!

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2020-07-09 10:17:10 GMT) Post-grading
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...suggested to me that I... That was too quick. Need to go back to work soon. Best

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Note added at 2 days 21 hrs (2020-07-10 08:24:44 GMT) Post-grading
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For the record, I did not agree anywhere. This is about research, not answers. While the movie is a good starting point, I don't think this can be definitely resolved unless someone speaks to the movie company, the marketing department or someone else involved in creating this piece.

The suggestion this is a painting/drawing is false, and that was important to correct. The next asker might need this info. What this asker does with the information is her choice. Movie name and particular scene aside, the findings are inconclusive, so this does not help any of the answers, not the first, not the second and not the third.

That aside, I’m free to agree or disagree with any answer and post references, as this is, of course, the whole point of KudoZ and perfectly legitimate. I shouldn't even have to explain myself here.

What is not OK is to insinuate this somehow overturns her decision, which is not just untrue but doesn’t make sense either. See above. It can, of course, be used to try to debase others without having to talk about linguistic points or do some more digging.

Björn Vrooman
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks for the references, Björn - much appreciated. As I said, I was working to a deadline, and simply wasn't able to do all the research. I was thus hopoing there was someone around who actually knew instantly what it referred to. I'm sure everyone is much edified by the effort that has gone into this!


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Chris Pr: Happy to add your response to the growing catalogue of manipulative interventions performed here - for eventual submission to ProZ directly, I might add...!
1 day 6 hrs
  -> Comment removed by Chris Pr: "Somebody (still) needs treatment for their obsessive /compulsive disorders..." While this is getting actionable, fine. I could've added more when emailing them but no use if the focus is on smears, not Qs. Good to show mgmt.
agree  Cilian O'Tuama: Keep up the good work, Björn!
1 day 7 hrs
  -> Thanks! Have a good night
agree  AllegroTrans: Well researched
8 days
  -> Thanks! Really had to put my nose to the screen and focus to see that movie title. Enjoy your weekend.
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