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spirituelle Gedankenmusik

English translation: spiritual music of the intellect

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:spirituelle Gedankenmusik
English translation:spiritual music of the intellect
Entered by: Chris Rowson (X)

11:45 Jan 16, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
German term or phrase: spirituelle Gedankenmusik
'Schon in seinen ersten gültigen Quartetten zeigt sich, dass der junge Komponist nicht nur auf den klassischen Vorbildern Haydn und Mozart aufbaute, sondern sich intensiv und schöpferisch auch mit dem von vielen seiner Zeitgenossen als „spirituelle Gedankenmusik“, als „wirre Klangfantasien eines ertaubten Musikers“ abgelehnten quartettistischen Spätwerk Beethovens auseinandergesetzt hat.'

As a confirmed Baroquer, I have no trouble with the second of the two quotes, but I can´t make out the "spirituelle Gedankenmusik". I would beinclined to interpret "Gedankenmusik" as "intellectual music", but how then "spiritual"?
Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 01:29
intellectual music conceptions
Explanation:
perhaps - stresses the "theoretical" aspect of intellectual + spiritual. alternativ: just your "intellectual music"
Selected response from:

AThode (X)
Local time: 01:29
Grading comment
Thank you all for a very perceptive set of proposals and comments, which all contributed substantially to my consideration of various possibilities.

I wound up using “spiritual music of the intellect”. The "intellect" element is for me one of the worst insults that can be levelled at music, and I concluded that that was what was (probably) intended here. I never did resolve the meaninglessness I perceive in this juxtaposition with “spiritual”, but I´m not sure whether that is my problem or that of the originator(s) of the phrase.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3spiritual abstraction
Michele Johnson
1 +4music of spiritual reflection
Lori Dendy-Molz
4music of ideas
Dr Andrew Read
3 +1spiritual imaginations
Johanna Timm, PhD
3spiritual music of contemplation
gangels (X)
2intellectual music conceptions
AThode (X)


  

Answers


17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
music of ideas


Explanation:
Am not totally happy about this, but it's kind of cognate with "novel of ideas", for example, and would sit more happily with "spiritual".

:-)

Dr Andrew Read
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:29
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 295
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
spiritual abstraction


Explanation:
Perhaps abstract/abstraction is a good approach. I think the "Musik" is a bit redundant; it's clear we're talking music here, and surely later in the sentence you'll use the word "work" (or pieces, or Beethoven's late whatever).

http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_10/chap_3....
"It is the same inexplicable phenomenon that in music allows wood, gut and hair (the acoustical equipment of a stringed instrument) to interpret a Bach fugue, the highest form of spiritual abstraction."

Michele Johnson
Germany
Local time: 01:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 581

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  i8a4re: I like it
31 mins
agree  Dr Andrew Read: Very nice. eg. "music of spiritual abstraction"
1 day 3 hrs
agree  FreePro: wonderful :)
3 days 2 hrs
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
intellectual music conceptions


Explanation:
perhaps - stresses the "theoretical" aspect of intellectual + spiritual. alternativ: just your "intellectual music"

AThode (X)
Local time: 01:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 21
Grading comment
Thank you all for a very perceptive set of proposals and comments, which all contributed substantially to my consideration of various possibilities.

I wound up using “spiritual music of the intellect”. The "intellect" element is for me one of the worst insults that can be levelled at music, and I concluded that that was what was (probably) intended here. I never did resolve the meaninglessness I perceive in this juxtaposition with “spiritual”, but I´m not sure whether that is my problem or that of the originator(s) of the phrase.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +4
music of spiritual reflection


Explanation:
Just what comes to my mind when I see the term; don't know if it really fits what you're looking for.

Lori Dendy-Molz
Germany
Local time: 01:29
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1453

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jonathan MacKerron: excellent!
1 hr
agree  cologne: nice
2 hrs
agree  Ellen Zittinger
3 hrs
neutral  Armorel Young: the original is being used in a derogatory sense which this doesn't capture
3 hrs
  -> The use is derogatory, but the source term doesn't in itself strike me as derogatory without the context. In any case, I like Dr. Timm's suggestion best, I think.
agree  FreePro: that one hits it even more. Good!
3 days 1 hr
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
spiritual music of contemplation


Explanation:
but zillions of interpretation are possible

gangels (X)
Local time: 17:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 5559
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
spiritual imaginations


Explanation:
the 'music' bit could be tied in with the following characterization, i.e.spiritual imaginations and 'bewildering musical/sound/tonal phantasies' or whatever

Anyway, what a great question!

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 16:29
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 7773

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lori Dendy-Molz: Could be a good solution -- maybe "imaginings" sted "imaginations".
26 mins
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