Absaugglocken

English translation: suction hood, suction bell

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	Absaugglocken
English translation:	suction hood, suction bell
Entered by:	Jörgen Slet

14:07 Oct 25, 2006

German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Environment & Ecology / measurement of diffuse emissions

German term or phrase: Absaugglocken

This again comes from the VDI guideline 4285 (Determination of diffusive emissions by measurements). and has been translated as "suction bells". I am translating from the English translation, and unfortunately I often cannot make much sense out of the translation.

Does the German original also mention suction, in the title and text ?

If it does, some of the text just doesn't make sense.

--- Here is the German source text ---

6.2 Direkte Methoden zur Emissionsermittlung

6.2.1 Vorermittlung mit
Absaugglocken

Diese einfache Methode wird zu Voruntersuchungen
der Emissionssituation von Deponien angewendet
und häufig auch als FID-Begehung bezeichnet. Insbesondere
so genannte hot spots, das heißt Bereiche
einer Deponie mit starkem Gasaustritt, können so ermittelt
werden. Im Prinzip stellt die Methode eine
stark verkleinerte Sonderform der Windtunnelmessung
dar. Gemessen wird die Zusammensetzung des
Gases unter einer Absaugglocke. Zu berücksichtigen
ist grundsätzlich auch die zusätzlich angesaugte
Falschluft. In der Praxis wird aber häufig vorausgesetzt,
dass die Konzentration der zu bestimmenden
Komponente (z.B. CH4) in der Falschluft vernachlässigt
werden kann, so dass sich damit der Messaufwand
erheblich vereinfacht.
Gilt diese Vorraussetzung nicht, so muss zur Quantifizierung
des Falschluftanteils neben der gesuchten
Komponente auch die Konzentration einer zweiten in
der Falschluft, aber nicht im zu untersuchenden Gasstrom
vorkommenden Komponente gemessen werden.
Das Messprinzip einer FID-Messung zur Ermittlung
der CH4-Emissionen aus Deponien ist in Bild 2 dargestellt.

--- Here is the English translation ---

6.2 Direct methods for determining emissions

6.2.1 Pre-determination with the help of
suction bells

This simple method is used for preliminary studies of
the emission situation of landfills and is often termed
FID field measurement. In particular what is termed
hot spots, i.e. landfill areas with a high level of gas
emission, can be determined in this way. In principle,
the method represents a strongly reduced special kind
of wind tunnel measurement. The composition of the
gas is measured under a suction bell. Basically, the
additionally sucked infiltrated air shall also be taken
into account. In practice, however, it is often assumed
that the concentration of the component to be determined
(e.g. CH4) is negligible in the infiltrated air, so
that the measurement effort is considerably reduced.
If this assumption is wrong, the concentration of a
second component that occurs in the infiltrated air,
but not in the gas flow to be analyzed, shall be measured
in addition to the component in question, in order
to be able to quantify the portion of the infiltrated
air.
Figure 2 shows the principle of a FID measurement
for the determination of CH4 emissions from landfills.

--- Here is the drawing ---

http://www.valent.ee/suctioncup.gif

Jörgen Slet KudoZ activity Questions: 132 (3 open) (30 without valid answers) (6 closed without grading) Answers: 99 Estonia
Local time: 08:36

suction hood, suction bell

Explanation:
While I see nothing basically wrong with "suction bell", I think I would use "suction hood" here; I doubt that the ENS would use "suction cap", as this is generally understood to be the sort of flexible rubber "cup" which sticks by suction on smooth surfaces and can support things like ashtrays in cars, tooth-mugs in the bathroom, brush-holders in the kitchen and a million-and-one other things besides.

You have my sympathy; some of the English is quaint, to say the least. To me, "strongly reduced special kind of" should read "much scaled-down type of", and I say "analysis" is preferable to "measurement" - because you don't "measure" a "composition" when you mean "find out what's in it".

Selected response from:

David Moore (X)
Local time: 07:36

Grading comment

Thanks, sorry I left this open for so long, the text is a mess and besides, most answers are reasonable.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

suction hood, suction bell

David Moore (X)

4 +1

extraction domes / hoods

Wulf-Dieter Krüger

vacuum hood

Darin Fitzpatrick

suction cups

Johannes Gleim

Discussion entries: 14

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

Johannes

12:48 Nov 7, 2006

Yes, Haube/hood/static flow chamber in the next paragraph is closed or with an opening but without suction. It is also quite widely known piece of equipment. Absaugglocke/suction bell is something I have never heard of, and the picture is similar to a well-known measurement device, dynamic flow chamber, which is *without suction* and with pumped air inflow. That is what caused all the confusion.

Johannes Gleim

21:19 Nov 6, 2006

I understand that the (little) suction bell (Absaugglocke) is subjected to a slight underpressure, but the (large) hood (Haube) is used without any external applied vaccuum. It allows to accumulate the exhausted gases during the test period.

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

Johannes

21:44 Nov 5, 2006

I suspect you can have either a sealed dome and vacuum or air intake and almost normal pressure, but not both at the same time.

Johannes Gleim

17:57 Oct 26, 2006

To reduce the infitrated air (dead, inleaked, secondary air), the intake (inlet) pressure should be as low as possible (I suppose some millibars) and the suction cup border as tight as possible. This prevents increasing the normal flow of exhausted gases

David Moore (X)

07:39 Oct 26, 2006

has to be better expressed as for example: "it is never assumed that there is a positive air-flow", or similarly. The translator really got his/her knickers in a horrible twist there...

David Moore (X)

07:38 Oct 26, 2006

With the extra context, I would suggest using BOTH the terms I posted, the "bell" as the Glocke. Also, the English is again tortured: "so large that it is not assumed to be actively flown through" is just plain wrong. Without semantics ("flown", indeed?),

Darin Fitzpatrick

United States

20:03 Oct 25, 2006

I stand corrected on the use of wind tunnels. Thanks! But I stand by the summary above regarding the meaning of the original German.

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

Wind tunnels are a common measurement method for gaseous emissions from surfaces

19:06 Oct 25, 2006

http://www.odour.unsw.edu.au/wind-tunnel-design.html

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

It stresses the dome volume as the primary difference

19:03 Oct 25, 2006

but if suction were applied, it would be the primary factor in creating the throughflow.

Darin Fitzpatrick

United States

18:59 Oct 25, 2006

Not sure what to tell you. A "Saugglocke" involves "saugen," or suction. If the text says that a suction hood has no suction, then it contradicts itself.

Darin Fitzpatrick

United States

18:57 Oct 25, 2006

Also, I would not worry about how similar this method is to a wind tunnel. Wind tunnels are used to measure airflow around models, which is a very different activity than analyzing gas components. The original comparison is weak, at best.

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

Another reason why I suspect the lack of suction/vacuum is the next paragraph

18:56 Oct 25, 2006

--- German ---

6.2.2 Haubenmessung

Im Gegensatz zur Saugglocke ist das Haubenvolumen
so groß gewählt, dass nicht von einer aktiven
Durchströmung des Haubenvolumens ausgegangen
wird.

--- English ---

6.2.2 Hood measurement

In contrast to the suction bell, the selected hood volume
is so large that it is not assumed to be actively
flown through.

Darin Fitzpatrick

United States

18:53 Oct 25, 2006

The answer is yes. Besides the "Absaugglocke," the original German text refers to "zusätzlich angesaugte Falschluft," which is "additional leak air drawn in." There is no ambiguity in the original, the air is drawn in under suction.

Jörgen Slet

Estonia

ASKER

The crucial question is if there is vacuum (suction) applied or not

18:45 Oct 25, 2006

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Absaugglocke

suction hood, suction bell

David Moore (X)
Local time: 07:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 112

Grading comment

Thanks, sorry I left this open for so long, the text is a mess and besides, most answers are reasonable.

1 hr confidence:

vacuum hood

Explanation:
or vacuum cover

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2006-10-25 16:16:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As David points out, the English is not up to standard. Air is "drawn into" the hood (or bell or cover) rather than "sucked into" it. (Also agree with David's notes, but that's not why you called.)

Suction is definitely involved, based on the German description.

Darin Fitzpatrick
United States
Native speaker of:

English

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

extraction domes / hoods

Explanation:
I take it that theses are bell-like devices sitting on the surface of landfills 'collecting' permeating gases from the landfill from where they might be pumped into containers.
however I cannot imagine that there is any pump for suction

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2006-10-25 16:43:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

domes is an error I just realized so one should stick with

extraction hoods

extracion bells

gas collecting bells

Wulf-Dieter Krüger
Local time: 12:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 8

23 mins confidence:

suction cups

Explanation:
Why not suction cup (as in the picture title)?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 Stunden (2006-10-25 17:59:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I do not see this contradiction, because the air sucked is not released into the environment, but olny investigated.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 Stunden (2006-10-25 18:23:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Suction cup = Saugnapf, Sauger.
Suction hood = Saughutze may also be possible (The German term "Hutze" is very seldom)
Or you may use extractor.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 Stunden (2006-10-25 18:25:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To asker: The emissons are not increased as the extracted air is collected and investigated and not released to the environment.

Johannes Gleim
Local time: 07:36
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: If suction is used, the emissions are heavily increased, and the following words in the text are not true: "In principle, the method represents a strongly reduced special kind of wind tunnel measurement."

Asker: If there is vacuum under the dome, it "sucks" gaseous emissions from the surface being measured. Thus we get a very high measurement result that is weakly related to the normal process. Since this is pre-determination, it is not completely unreasonable. But there is no similarity to wind tunnel measurement where air is *blown* under the hood.

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Absaugglocken

English translation: suction hood, suction bell

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