als auch von dem der Gruppe

English translation: as well as from society mediating demands on the individual to act for the common good

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:als auch von dem (Anspruch) der Gruppe, ihn mediatisierend auf das Gemeinwohl zu verpflichten
English translation:as well as from society mediating demands on the individual to act for the common good
Entered by: Steffen Walter

07:07 Apr 23, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics / history of liberalism
German term or phrase: als auch von dem der Gruppe
(Direkte Konsequenz dieses methodologischen Individualismus sind die wiederum negativ gefassten Anforderungen an die Rechtfertigung und konkrete Ausformung politischer Herrschaft.) "Sie führen zu einer zweifachen Umkehrung der Beweislast: Gegen die Staatstheorie des englischen Mathematikers und Philosophen Thomas Hobbes (1588 bis 1679), die jede Selbstordnungsfähigkeit der Gesellschaft ausschließt, *emanzipiert der Liberalismus den Einzelnen sowohl von dem Anspruch des Herrschers, ihn auf den Pfad der Tugend zu führen, als auch von dem der Gruppe, ihn mediatisierend auf das Gemeinwohl zu verpflichten*. "
For which I have:
"These demands lead to a dual reversal of the burden of proof: as opposed to the theory of the state proposed by the English mathematician and philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679), which precludes any ability of a society to govern itself - Liberalism emancipates individuals from a ruler’s claims to keeping them on the straight and narrow, as well as from those of the group, thus mediating for common good"
Especially the bit I've marked is unclear to me.
Jonathan MacKerron
bezieht sich auf Anspruch
Explanation:
...emanzipiert der Liberalismus den Einzelnen von dem Anspruch der Gruppe, ...
very freely:
liberalism frees the individual from the aspirtation of the ruler to lead him onto the right path and from that of society to act for the greater good.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2007-04-23 07:41:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ich sehe dass als 2 unterschiedliche Ansprüche: den des Herrschers (Führung auf den Pfad der Tugend) und den der Gruppe (die Verpflichtung auf das Allgemeinwohl).
Deine Interpretation stellt die Verpflichtung auf das Allgemeinwohl ebenfalls als Anspruch des Herrschers dar.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-04-23 09:02:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

not to "mediate for the common good". The *group* is *mediating* to get the invdividual to act for the common good.... The question is how to phrase this... maybe:
"... and from the mediating demands made be the group on the individual to act for the common good" ?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-04-23 11:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"pressure" ist vielleicht etwas zu krass ausgedrückt, "demands" (wie zuvor von Dir verwendet) klingt da eventuell moderater? Ansonsten würd ich sagen, dass es jetzt das Original adäquat wiedergibt. :-)
Selected response from:

BirgitBerlin
Germany
Local time: 21:41
Grading comment
many thanks to all who contributed!!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4bezieht sich auf Anspruch
BirgitBerlin
3["thus" isn't there - see below]
Jim Tucker (X)
2Anspruch = expectation/hope/aspiration
Francis Lee (X)


Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
["thus" isn't there - see below]


Explanation:
this part of the sentence is parallel all the way through with the preceding part:

"as well as (emancipating them) from the demands of the group that (individuals) be (held) responsible for the common good through its (the group's) mediation"

Jim Tucker (X)
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: so you take group here to mean "organized citizenry" or some such like?

Asker: you're right, I did understand the concept but forgot to change it in my text

Asker: "obliging the individual to mediate for the common good" - sorry my brain still seems to be in bed this morning

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Anspruch = expectation/hope/aspiration


Explanation:
It's about keeping the ruler on the straight and narrow (as regards his own concerns) while (from the group perspective) ensuring he respects his obligations as regards the common good.
Your question does not as such appear to be about "als auch von dem der Gruppe" (which you interpreted correctly).
By the way: I think "Pfad der Tugend" deserves a faithful rendering here, i.e. the path of virtue/righteousness ...

My suggestions for Anspruch are more passing ideas than concrete suggestions, however ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2007-04-23 07:29:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For "mediatisierend" I'd say "subject him DIRECTLY" to ...
(in the sense of ""immediate")

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-04-23 08:07:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And for "Gruppe": collective body/subject ...

Francis Lee (X)
Local time: 21:41
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88
Notes to answerer
Asker: dare I use the word "mediatize"?

Asker: I actually have "keep him/her to the path of virtue", but changed it when I posed the question


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jim Tucker (X): (your first sentence involves a misinterpretation of "ihn" in both cases - see comments above // OK - the other thing is the trans of Anspruch - the issue is that the indiv is being *emancipated* from smthng - that's why "demand" is probably better
1 hr
  -> Yes, it's about the rights and obligations of the individual, of course. ;-)/ Hmmm ... but "demand" is in turn too strong IMO
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
bezieht sich auf Anspruch


Explanation:
...emanzipiert der Liberalismus den Einzelnen von dem Anspruch der Gruppe, ...
very freely:
liberalism frees the individual from the aspirtation of the ruler to lead him onto the right path and from that of society to act for the greater good.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2007-04-23 07:41:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ich sehe dass als 2 unterschiedliche Ansprüche: den des Herrschers (Führung auf den Pfad der Tugend) und den der Gruppe (die Verpflichtung auf das Allgemeinwohl).
Deine Interpretation stellt die Verpflichtung auf das Allgemeinwohl ebenfalls als Anspruch des Herrschers dar.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-04-23 09:02:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

not to "mediate for the common good". The *group* is *mediating* to get the invdividual to act for the common good.... The question is how to phrase this... maybe:
"... and from the mediating demands made be the group on the individual to act for the common good" ?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-04-23 11:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"pressure" ist vielleicht etwas zu krass ausgedrückt, "demands" (wie zuvor von Dir verwendet) klingt da eventuell moderater? Ansonsten würd ich sagen, dass es jetzt das Original adäquat wiedergibt. :-)

BirgitBerlin
Germany
Local time: 21:41
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
many thanks to all who contributed!!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Birgit, thanks for your detailed explanation

Asker: Liberalism emancipates the individual from a ruler’s aspiration to keep him/her to the path of virtue, and from demands made by the group on the individual to mediate for the common good? Thanks for your patience.

Asker: Danke und Gruss aus Lichterfelde!

Asker: "-Liberalism emancipates the individual from a ruler’s aspiration to keep him/her to the path of virtue, as well as from society’s mediating pressure on the individual to act for the common good"?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francis Lee (X): aspiration ;-)
5 mins
  -> "aspiration" natürlich...Typo. Ich war noch nicht ganz wach! Sorry!

agree  casper (X): Your "very free" translation is indeed very good. Kudos to you, BirgitBerlin
1 hr

agree  Rebecca Garber
7 hrs

agree  Cilian O'Tuama: schön (would "peers" work for "Gruppe?)
12 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search