von Mettauertal AG

English translation: familial village

16:07 May 30, 2018

German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Notarization of a certificate of incorporation

German term or phrase: von Mettauertal AG

Hey there,

All of the personal data below, other than the type of Gemeinde (which as per Wikipedia does not mean municipality in this context, not quite) and the canton (Aargau), have obviously been altered:

B.C., geb. 1.1.1978, ***von Mettauertal AG*** [Einwohnergemeinde, SW], wohnhaft in 8XXX Zürich, Bahnhofstrasse 2814.

Does this mean "citizen of Mettauertal, AG" or is it a mistake to put that with an Einwohnergemeinde. If so, would this just be "from Mettauertal, AG"? Anything to do with where the individual was born, perhaps (I somehow tend to doubt that though)?

I feel that just putting "from", time-saving style, is not a good thing as Swiss Gemeinderecht and citizenship law is actually a bit complicated.

This little detail is important because the individual concerned holds a POA and participates in the notarization of a certificate of incorporation as an agent of the company founders, being the main protagonist.

Cheers,

Sebastian Witte

Sebastian Witte KudoZ activity Questions: 1498 (none open) (73 closed without grading) Answers: 1077 Germany
Local time: 01:50

English translation:familial village

Explanation:
Fits Thomas' reference.

https://www.pdsoros.org/meet-the-fellows/nairi-hartooni
Her parents, who were the first generation to live outside of their familial village and receive a formal education, noticed that post-revolution Iran would not fairly offer their daughter educational opportunities.

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Note added at 2 days 16 hrs (2018-06-02 08:14:24 GMT) Post-grading
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This isn't my area, but I don't like *adding* "place of origin" if the receiving client is not Swiss.
The phrase is very ambiguous (easily confused with the "Place of birth:" on my passport),
not appropriately applied to people in English outside of a geneaological/scientific analysis,
and a translation from the French.
German: Bürgerort oder Heimatort (Switzerland only)
French: lieu d'origine (Switzerland only)
English: Place of origin (Swizerland only)

"(Swiss) citizen of" adheres closely to your ST and avoids these issues.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie_(Suisse)
Napoléon III était bourgeois de la commune de Salenstein (Thurgovie)
>Napoleon III was a citizen of the Swiss village of Salenstein in the canton of Thurgau.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_origin
In Switzerland, the place of origin (German: Heimatort or Bürgerort, literally "home place" or "citizen place"; French: Lieu d'origine; Italian: Luogo d'origine) *denotes where the Swiss citizen has his municipal citizenship*. It is not to be confused with the place of birth or the place of residence, although two or all three of these locations can be identical depending on the person.

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Note added at 2 days 16 hrs (2018-06-02 08:19:06 GMT) Post-grading
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... "The last two kinds of citizenship are a mere formality while the municipal citizenship is the most significant step in becoming a Swiss citizen."

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Note added at 3 days 18 hrs (2018-06-03 10:24:04 GMT) Post-grading
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In the discussion, after I suggested "village citizen of," someone posted a helpful reference for your exact context.

Unter dieser Rubrik sind der Familienname, der oder die Vorname(n), der Wohnort (politische Gemeinde) und der Bürgerort (*bei Ausländern statt des Bürgerortes die Staatsangehörigkeit*) der Gesellschafter anzugeben.

Therefore, we can use "citizen of" instead of a region-specific phrase with a cached meaning. Hopefully this helps anyone else who wants to translate translate "von" in a similar context.

Selected response from:

Herbmione Granger
Germany
Local time: 01:50

Grading comment

Thank you everybody.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

familial village

Herbmione Granger

Summary of reference entries provided

Bürgergemeinde (KudoZ-Archiv)

Thomas Pfann

Discussion entries: 4

Björn Vrooman

This question has already been asked and answered.

10:37 May 31, 2018

Granted, you need something short, but then this should be posted in EN-EN.

Else, @Sebastian, here are two tidbits you may find interestin:
"Unter dieser Rubrik sind der Familienname, der oder die Vorname(n), der Wohnort (politische Gemeinde) und der Bürgerort bei Ausländern statt des Bürgerortes die Staatsangehörigkeit) der Gesellschafter anzugeben."
http://www.ur.ch/dl.php/de/5938eae33e9a8/MerkblattKollektivg...

You may need that. Additionally, ZEFIX, the federal agency in charge of business registration, will forward you to gruenden.ch for any info in English. Their brochure says:
"Political municipality of the place of origin or nationality of foreign nationals"
https://www.gruenden.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/gruenden_publi...

Regardless of whether this is good English, the Swiss seem to have settled on "place of origin."

Same in this pretty authoritative document, p. 52 and 69: https://ehra.fenceit.ch/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/HREG_Blu...

If you need something shorter: I don't think there are any good preps for this...maybe "with ties to," but that's a bit vague.

Best

Herbmione Granger

Germany

citizenship

08:51 May 31, 2018

Yes, the wiki entry isn't perfectly written, but it is helpful. I think "village citizenship" or "village citizen of" could be used. Otherwise, the person "belongs to" or "is of" Mettauertal (awkward).
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228754867_Village_C...
Village citizenship emerged before the modern citizenship granted by the state. It was common in Europe, the USA and many parts of Asia.

Sebastian Witte

Germany

ASKER

Thank you, Thomas.

17:11 May 30, 2018

Phil, the thoroughly quality-controlled English version of Wikipedia does use the term "citizenship" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipalities_of_Switzerland#... . Anyway, I am always happy to learn from native linguists.

philgoddard

United States

16:22 May 30, 2018

Einwohnergemeinde simply means district as far as I can see. You can't use "citizen", which refers to a country.
I think you should say "in the canton of X" rather than just giving the abbreviation.

Answers

1 hr confidence:

familial village

Herbmione Granger
Germany
Local time: 01:50
Meets criteria
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 20

Grading comment

Thank you everybody.

Reference comments

25 mins peer agreement (net): +7

Reference: Bürgergemeinde (KudoZ-Archiv)

Reference information:
Die Übersetzung „from“ halte ich auch für irreführend, aber ansonsten enthält die folgende Frage aus dem KudoZ-Archive vielleicht ein paar nützliche Hinweise und Formulierungsideen:

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/law_general/619...

Thomas Pfann
United Kingdom
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 8

Note to reference poster

Asker: Thank you, Thomas and AllegroTrans. "Place of orgin" sounds good.

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)

agree

philgoddard: Perfect! I assumed it was place of birth, but apparently not. How do they define it, I wonder. Could it be the parents' domicile, which may be different to the place of birth? //Actually it's explained in the previous question.

4 mins

-> I remembered that old question but it's difficult to find (who'd search the glossary for "from"?). It's a strange thing and I don't fully understand it tbh. Could even be a place your family left generations ago and might have no links back to whatsoever.

agree

Herbmione Granger: Good dig-up. Not sure Sebastian can/should omit it from the document.

1 hr

-> Thanks. And agreed. Definitely not to be omitted in this context.

agree

AllegroTrans: I have been using "place of orgin:" followed by the town/viillage name

1 hr

agree

Andrea Muller (X)

5 hrs

agree

Johanna Timm, PhD: Danke Thomas!

5 hrs

agree

Edith Kelly

11 hrs

agree

Björn Vrooman: Yes, I remember that discussion =)

17 hrs

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English translation: familial village

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