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er

English translation: she (here)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:er
English translation:she (here)
Entered by: Chris Rowson (X)

14:21 Jan 16, 2003
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
German term or phrase: er
“Wie lautet dessen Anschrift (falls er sich nicht mehr im Heimatland aufhält, bitte die letzt Adresse dort und die aktuelle angeben)?”

The wider context is the hearing of an applicant for asylum in Germany by a judge in an “Außenstelle des Bundesamtes” (für die Anerkennung ausländischer Flüchtlinge). The judge is taking the questions from a catalogue of standard questions.

The preceding question was “Nennen Sie bitte Familiennamen, ... Ihres Ehepartners sowie Datum und Ort der Eheschließung”. To which the applicant replies giving the name etc. of his wife. Then the judge proceeds with the question quoted above, where I take it that “dessen” and “er” refer to the “Ehepartner”.

But translating with “his” and “he” seems to me wrong, verging on idiotic. I suppose that what is happening is that in English the grammatic gender of “partner” changes when the sex of the partner is known.

Is it best to translate “er” as “she” in this context, or is there some other solution to this?
Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 14:55
you are absolutely right
Explanation:
the 'er' of course refers to der Ehepartner even though that person is a woman. I would translate as 'she' etc just as you suggest.

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Note added at 2003-01-16 14:24:59 (GMT)
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Alternatively, you could say \'said partner\', \'said person\', thus avoiding the issue altogether.

hope it helps

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 14:27:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Even better, why not use \'spouse\', \'the spouse\'s\' etc? The gender should then be obvious.
Selected response from:

Nicole Tata
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:55
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for your help. I wound up using elements of a number of the answers at various points where this issue arise. I tried to avoid translating "er" as "she" but at one or two points I could not find an appropriate way out and went right ahead with it. Which amused me greatly :-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1German grammatical peculiarity
Claudia Tomaschek
4 +1you are absolutely right
Nicole Tata
5he/she OR she/he
Robin Ward
4the applicant or the partner, depending on who's being referred to....
Alison Schwitzgebel
4see explanation below
William Stein
3her address
Jonathan MacKerron
3the party or person concerned
writeaway


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
you are absolutely right


Explanation:
the 'er' of course refers to der Ehepartner even though that person is a woman. I would translate as 'she' etc just as you suggest.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 14:24:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively, you could say \'said partner\', \'said person\', thus avoiding the issue altogether.

hope it helps

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 14:27:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Even better, why not use \'spouse\', \'the spouse\'s\' etc? The gender should then be obvious.

Nicole Tata
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 1326
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for your help. I wound up using elements of a number of the answers at various points where this issue arise. I tried to avoid translating "er" as "she" but at one or two points I could not find an appropriate way out and went right ahead with it. Which amused me greatly :-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ron Stelter
5 hrs
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3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the applicant or the partner, depending on who's being referred to....


Explanation:
ought to get around it. Or you could say "what is their address".

HTH

Alison

Alison Schwitzgebel
France
Local time: 14:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 3409
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
he/she OR she/he


Explanation:
A neutral suggestion which I guess could be used globally.

Robin Ward
Germany
Local time: 14:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 416
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
see explanation below


Explanation:
I don't think Ehepartner is meant to refer to the wife (that would be "Ehepartnerin"). The assumption seems to be that the applicant is female and is providing information about her husband.

PDF]Fragebogen für den/die Ehepartner/Ehepartnerin,
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Page 1. Ausgleichskasse des Kantons Bern Caisse de compensation du canton de Berne
Fragebogen für den/die Ehepartner/Ehepartnerin, Beilage zur Anmeldung für ...
www.akbern.ch/Formulare1/ Anmeldung_Nichterwerbstaetige_Zus1.pdf - Similar pages

30.3.83 IR 209/81 Altersversorgung für Ehepartnerin b. ... - [ Translate this page ]
30.3.83 IR 209/81 Altersversorgung für Ehepartnerin b. Gleichbehandlung
mit anderen. Leitsätze: Die betriebliche Veranlassung einer ...
www.deutsche-versicherungsboerse.de/fachthemen/bav/datenban... BFH-Ehegattenversorgung/30.3.83ir209.81alt... - 18k


William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 06:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1734

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  LegalTrans D: The wife is very much an "Ehepartner", William, especially in official lingo. Judges frequently have nothing but contempt for political correctness.
3 hrs
  -> It's just a hypothesis that would make sense of the situation.
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
her address


Explanation:
If the judge is simply reading standard questions, the actual gender of the persons in question may not be taken into account. If it's obvious that she's a woman, than why not "her"?.

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 5577
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the party or person concerned


Explanation:
a chicken-out suggestion

writeaway
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1179
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
German grammatical peculiarity


Explanation:
Hi Chris,

The role and the use of genders is very different in German and English. In English the gender is almost always natural (except for ships), in German gender is mainly a matter of grammar, e.g. "das Mädchen, es".

Because it is "der Ehepartner" it hast to be "dessen Anschrift" or "er" in the following sentences. In English you must however use "her" and "she" due to the natural gender. As the article "the" does not give any hints to the gender at all, English is dominated by the natural gender. In respect to partner both is possible , she or he. Taken that into account I wouldn't translate around the bush but use the natural gender in the translation. After all in a sentence like "Als das Mädchen auf die Straße ging, sah es einen Hund" you wouldn't translate the "es" as "it" but as "she".

Cheers
Claudia


Claudia Tomaschek
Local time: 14:55
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in pair: 602

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  LegalTrans D: Very much so, Claudia. I think German is the only language (or it least one of the few languages), in which the moon is male and the sun female.
2 hrs
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