Feb 14, 2003 11:47
21 yrs ago
3 viewers *
German term
Luecke
German to English
Law/Patents
Dear translation colleagues:
I know this question has been asked before, as recently as last week. (I couldn't find it in the glossary.)
But I am deliberately asking it again, even though I know the answer. I'm having a problem with an agency from Belgium. I did this standard agreement filled with lots of standard legalese that you guys see in your sleep. The guy was finding fault everywhere with the legal wording, although I have translated many such documents to the satisfaction of the clients and always use the best answers that I find on Proz (which are usually confirmed by even dozens of other translators through their peer grading). But he still insists that I'm wrong and is demanding a very substantial payment discount, which I feel he is neither entitled to nor deserving of. Period.
Thus, I ask this question again for his benefit. If there are 275 of you out there, please either give an answer or peer grade. If you have a lot of translating experience or are a practicing attorney, please also note this with your "vote." He feels that Proz translators are all inexperienced and second-rate.
I thank you for your "vote."
Ron Stelter
from an agreement:
"Sollte eine der vorstehenden Bestimmungen unwirksam oder undurchfuehrbar sein oder werden, so wird hierdurch die Wirksamkeit aller sonstigen Bestimmungen nicht beruehrt. Die Parteien sind aufgerufen, anstelle der unwirksamen eine wirksame Regelung zu vereinbaren, die dem von beiden Parteien mit der unwirksamen Regelung beabsichtigten wirtschaftlichen Zweck der unwirksamen Regelung moeglichst nahekommt. Dies gilt entsprechend auch im Falle einer Luecke."
I know this question has been asked before, as recently as last week. (I couldn't find it in the glossary.)
But I am deliberately asking it again, even though I know the answer. I'm having a problem with an agency from Belgium. I did this standard agreement filled with lots of standard legalese that you guys see in your sleep. The guy was finding fault everywhere with the legal wording, although I have translated many such documents to the satisfaction of the clients and always use the best answers that I find on Proz (which are usually confirmed by even dozens of other translators through their peer grading). But he still insists that I'm wrong and is demanding a very substantial payment discount, which I feel he is neither entitled to nor deserving of. Period.
Thus, I ask this question again for his benefit. If there are 275 of you out there, please either give an answer or peer grade. If you have a lot of translating experience or are a practicing attorney, please also note this with your "vote." He feels that Proz translators are all inexperienced and second-rate.
I thank you for your "vote."
Ron Stelter
from an agreement:
"Sollte eine der vorstehenden Bestimmungen unwirksam oder undurchfuehrbar sein oder werden, so wird hierdurch die Wirksamkeit aller sonstigen Bestimmungen nicht beruehrt. Die Parteien sind aufgerufen, anstelle der unwirksamen eine wirksame Regelung zu vereinbaren, die dem von beiden Parteien mit der unwirksamen Regelung beabsichtigten wirtschaftlichen Zweck der unwirksamen Regelung moeglichst nahekommt. Dies gilt entsprechend auch im Falle einer Luecke."
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
6 mins
Selected
Last sentence: "This (provision) shall apply accordingly to unintended (contractual) gaps, if any."
This is a standard severability clause wording.
Steffen
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-02-14 11:55:00 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or omissions, as Alison suggested (I\'d combine \"...gaps or omissions, if any\")
Steffen
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-02-14 11:55:00 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or omissions, as Alison suggested (I\'d combine \"...gaps or omissions, if any\")
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Steffen. I was actually looking for "gap." Quite a different set of answers this time. But I thank you. And I thank Alison for tracking down the previous question regarding this term.
Ron"
+6
2 mins
loophole or omission
HTH
Alison
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-02-14 12:47:57 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The question you were looking for was http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=356372&keyword=l�cke, in which the answer selected was proposed by Maureen Holm and was gaps or omissions.
Alison
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-02-14 12:47:57 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The question you were looking for was http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=356372&keyword=l�cke, in which the answer selected was proposed by Maureen Holm and was gaps or omissions.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jeannie Graham
1 min
|
agree |
Louise Mawbey
4 mins
|
agree |
Asya Sokirko
: I have been translating mostly legal texts for the past 7 years, and I totally agree with Alison.
7 mins
|
agree |
Esther Wiemeyer
13 mins
|
agree |
Steffen Walter
: I'd go for omission since, IMHO, loophole is used more frequently in conjunction with laws/legislation (e.g. tax avoidance due to loopholes in applicable laws).
16 mins
|
agree |
John Bowden
: Agree with Steffen
3 hrs
|
+1
5 mins
loophole
What I would use in this context
Peer comment(s):
agree |
William Stein
: Loophole is fine in a normal expository text but you won't find it any contracts. Ron: Search "saving clause" and 'severability clause" on Google and you'll find lots of examples.
2 hrs
|
2 hrs
Addendum to Steffens suggestion
If individual provisions of these conditions will be deemed void or invalid, the remaining provisions shall not be affected by such nullity or unenforceability. Any invalid provision is instead to be supplemented by mutual agreement in such a fashion that as permitted by law most closely approximates the financial goal pursued by such invalid provision.
This is the first part of this standard clause.
This is the first part of this standard clause.
7 hrs
Lücke, not Luecke. Glossary contains plenty of entries.
boilerplate
Something went wrong...