einfallsbetont

English translation: spontaneous (in context)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:einfallsbetont
English translation:spontaneous (in context)
Entered by: Edward L. Crosby III

04:43 Jan 25, 2003
German to English translations [PRO]
/ methodology, philosophy
German term or phrase: einfallsbetont
All,

My text concerns the elaboration of a concept for a “new generation” of combined-cycle power plants (those that have at least 1 steam turbine and 1 gas turbine), however my question has nothing to do with the technology involved.

The author begins by talking about the way in which solutions (acceptable plant configurations) are found, and says,

“Die Lösungssuche wird sowohl durch intuitives (einfallsbetont, überwiegend im Unterbewußtsein, kaum beeinflußbar und nachvollziehbar) als auch diskursives (bewußt, schrittweise, mitteilsam) Denken unterstützt.

I’ve interpreted that as

“Intuitive thought processes (which are idea-driven, occur largely in the subconscious, and can rarely be controlled or reproduced) as well as discursive processes (consciously step-by-step, and with the input of others) aid in the search for a solution.”

I’d certainly like some input re “einfallsbetont”, and feel free to comment on other aspects of the sentence as well, as I'm not too satisfied with my result.

Thanks,

Ed
Edward L. Crosby III
Local time: 12:56
I'd use the passive
Explanation:
in order to change the focus of the sentence; "processes aid" feels a bit too active

The search for a solution is supported by intuitive thinking... and logical thinking....

I like idea-driven
Selected response from:

Teresa Reinhardt
United States
Local time: 12:56
Grading comment
Thanks, all!

Since all of you had something useful to offer, and I can’t divide the points or award 4 points to each of you (are you listening, ProZ?), I’ll have to award them to the first respondent. However you all have helped, and have given me more points to ponder in formulating my final text. Your help was greatly appreciated.

What I came up with for the subject sentence (pending a final revision at the end of the project) is this:

"The search for a solution is based on intuitive thought processes (which are spontaneous, occur largely on a subconscious level and can seldom be influenced or reproduced) as well as discursive processes (conscious, methodical and formulated through communication with others)."

The gestation of an intuitive thought starts in the subconscious rather than in the conscious mind, and such thoughts are therefore usually not subject to influence by the "thinker", nor can they be reproduced by others (followed step-by-step from beginning to end) because they are not the result of conscious activity; the creator cannot detail the thought process which resulted in the solution.

Discursive thought processes are the result of interaction with others, and therefore represent a conscious process which is methodical and follows a certain pattern – and can be "nachvollzogen" by reviewers after the fact.

Wow; the technical design review section of this report can’t come too soon for me :).
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2I'd use the passive
Teresa Reinhardt
4 +1subject to sudden flashes of insight
William Stein
4spontaneous
gangels
4ideational / duplicable
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
2 +2inspirational
OlafK
3instinctive
Deborah Shannon
3on "nachvollziehbar"
Endre Both


  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
I'd use the passive


Explanation:
in order to change the focus of the sentence; "processes aid" feels a bit too active

The search for a solution is supported by intuitive thinking... and logical thinking....

I like idea-driven

Teresa Reinhardt
United States
Local time: 12:56
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4290
Grading comment
Thanks, all!

Since all of you had something useful to offer, and I can’t divide the points or award 4 points to each of you (are you listening, ProZ?), I’ll have to award them to the first respondent. However you all have helped, and have given me more points to ponder in formulating my final text. Your help was greatly appreciated.

What I came up with for the subject sentence (pending a final revision at the end of the project) is this:

"The search for a solution is based on intuitive thought processes (which are spontaneous, occur largely on a subconscious level and can seldom be influenced or reproduced) as well as discursive processes (conscious, methodical and formulated through communication with others)."

The gestation of an intuitive thought starts in the subconscious rather than in the conscious mind, and such thoughts are therefore usually not subject to influence by the "thinker", nor can they be reproduced by others (followed step-by-step from beginning to end) because they are not the result of conscious activity; the creator cannot detail the thought process which resulted in the solution.

Discursive thought processes are the result of interaction with others, and therefore represent a conscious process which is methodical and follows a certain pattern – and can be "nachvollzogen" by reviewers after the fact.

Wow; the technical design review section of this report can’t come too soon for me :).

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Endre Both: Yes, the passive seems more natural here, introducing "Lösungssuche" before elaborating on what it consists in.
2 hrs

agree  Deborah Shannon: Keeping Lösungssuche at the front of the sentence is a good idea.
5 hrs
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
inspirational


Explanation:
driven by inspiration
inspired



OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:56
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 34

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Endre Both
2 hrs

agree  Ron Stelter: inspired
13 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
on "nachvollziehbar"


Explanation:
Regarding einfallsbetont, I like both "driven by inspiration" and "idea-driven".

What I'm not sure of is that "reproduced" is ideal for "nachvollziehbar".

How about e.g. "retraced" instead?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-25 10:19:35 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re: duplicable/reproducible for nachvollziehbar: remember that we are talking about thought processes, not products or even innovations. Would you use the collocation \"duplicating thoughts\"?

Here (as in most other cases), I think nachvollziehbar means that it is clear / can be understood how something has come into being; its development can be understood.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-25 10:29:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"Idea-driven\" or \"driven by inspiration\" is perfectly OK, since \"drive\" does not refer to idea/inspiration but to the search, so there is nothing about \"conscious deliberation\" in this term.

Endre Both
Germany
Local time: 21:56
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in HungarianHungarian
PRO pts in pair: 648

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: "Retraced" is a nice touch. Reflects a different take than mine and my consequent "duplicable" result. Your're talking about retracing the thought, while I'm talking about duplicating the process.
16 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
subject to sudden flashes of insight


Explanation:
or subject to sudden insights/inspirations
The problem with "idea-driven" is that it sounds like it based on conscious deliberation but "Einfall" is something "falls into your mind" when you are in a passive, receptive state (as when dreaming or lost in contemplation)

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 13:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1734

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andrea Nemeth-Newhauser: I like the flashes of insight, but would rephrase it: "which are guided by sudden flashes of insight, occur largely in the subconscious, and can rarely be controlled or reproduced"
12 hrs
  -> A good flash of insight!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ideational / duplicable


Explanation:
Alternative to "ideational" could be "fanciful," if "ideational" seems too psychological, but I frankly did a doubletake when I saw that this paragraph occurs in the context of turbines.
Second alternative to "ideational" would be "unbidden." "Inspirational" suggests infomercials or church. "Inspired" is frankly shopworn.

"Einfall," as indicated by WStein is passive (unbidden), whereas "idea-driven" seems quite at odds with the "kaum beeinflussbar" which follows.

I think "cannot be willed" is better than "cannot be controlled." The latter suggests uncontrollable, which starts sounding like hearing voices will be next.

"Schrittweise" is better rendered I think as "linear" or even "rational" than as "step-by-step."

"Mitteilsam": I would think more in terms of "outwardly expressive" than the notion of "input from others." That already sounds Mitbestimmungsrecht, a voice at a works council meeting. Which brings us back to (ugh) turbines, so, good luck!


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-25 08:40:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

einfallsbetont = hmm, \"whimsical\"?

Oh, and \"duplicable\" is what one is looking for with \"nachvollziehbar,\" basically quasi-scientific. No break-through is worth much if it can\'t be duplicated. \"Reproducible\" here opens it up to other rather ungermane associations.

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 15:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 986
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
instinctive


Explanation:
is another possibility. Before I read the context I immediately thought of "intuitive" for "einfallsbetont" - so possibly a case for treating it as redundant, too.

I'd be inclined to use "intuitive thinking" and "discursive thinking: and keep the definitions clipped, as in the source text, e.g. (instinctive, usually subconscious, involuntary and somewhat irrational).

Another possibility for "step-by-step" might be "systematic", in this context.


Deborah Shannon
Germany
Local time: 21:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 707
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
spontaneous


Explanation:
if you want to stay with a single word

or perhaps unpremeditated

gangels
Local time: 13:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 5555
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