Jenseits

English translation: "more than"

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Jenseits
English translation:"more than"
Entered by: Laurens Landkroon

11:25 Apr 27, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Philosophy / Buchtitel
German term or phrase: Jenseits
Anstatt mir Freud zu bringen, mein Freund Sigi bereitet mir Kopfschmerzen. Man fragt mich: Na, Wenjer, du kannst doch Deutsch, oder? Was heißt den "Jenseits des Lustprinzips"?

Ins Englische hat man das Buch von Sigi als "Beyond the Principle of Pleasure" übersetzt.Ich wundere mich aber, warum "beyond" und warum "pleasure"? Ich verstehe es nicht, weil ich das Buch auf keine Sprache gelesen habe.

Da schrieb der Fredi Nietzsche auch so ein Buch, das "Jenseits von Guten und Bösen" heißt. (Oder, Jenseits von Gut und Böse?) Nun, gibt es überhaupt ein "Diesseits von Gut und Böse"? Oder auch "Diesseits des Lustprizips"?

Soll das "jenseits" vielleicht so etwas wie das "über" in Heini Heines "Über Deutscheland seit Luther" bedeuten? Aber warum mal jenseits und mal über? Kann jemand mir helfen?

Vielen Dank im voraus.
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 02:14
"more than"
Explanation:
Dear Wenjer,

I am not too familiar with German literature, but I have read my share of Psychology works. I take that you are familiar with the works of Sigmund, or at least know his "general ideas".
Keeping this in mind, the word "Jenseits", in my opinion, indeed refers to "beyond". I do think that a better translation should be available for this purpose, but as often is the case, a book has to be made interesting enough for people to pick up (=buy!). In other words, don't worry about the exact meaning of Jenseits and/or beyond in this context................... (as long as you know that the two words in this context both refer to the underlying, or deeper, meaning in nearly all Sigmund's ideas).

And in my opinion, the word "pleasure" in the title doesn't give proper credit to Sigmund's work (and I believe is added to attract more byers); if one wants to read more "behind the lines" (about the sexual/habitual needs of people) than there actually is in the books, than you can go very far (if you know what I mean).
In this respect, the word "Lustprinzips" gives a better description than "pleasure" does, in the general meaning of Sigmund's thoughts and ideas. (But of course, the interpretation of pleasure, lust, erotic experiences, etc. and the thoughts and habits people have about this, is a very wide and subjective matter all the same...........).
And if you read several psychology works, you know by now that everyone has his or her own "speciality" or "area", I refer to Maslow, Freud, Watson, Jung. (among others).

Kind regards,

Somerset.

Selected response from:

Laurens Landkroon
Local time: 20:14
Grading comment
Many thanks to all of you!
What a pity that I cannot devide the points. I would like to greet my dear friend Janfri with great pleasure. Y deseo que tenga gran éxito! Mil grácias.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2jenseits/über etwas hinaus gehend
------ (X)
3 +1beyond the pleasure principle
mckinnc
3"more than"
Laurens Landkroon


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
beyond
jenseits/über etwas hinaus gehend


Explanation:
"Beyond the pleasure principle" oder "the principle of pleasure", auf Spanisch "Más allá del principio del placer". There is more to pleasure than meets the...
Über wäre about oder on.
Viele Grüsse.

------ (X)
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MMUlr: Da gibt es doch auch "Out of Africa" - Jenseits von Afrika ... aber "out of pleasure" ... out of stock? wäre traurig :-)) (aber im Ernst, über etwas hinaus gehend .. das ist es doch)
43 mins
  -> Vielen Dank!´:o)

agree  Darin Fitzpatrick: This is the correct sense of "jenseits."
1 hr
  -> Thanks!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
"more than"


Explanation:
Dear Wenjer,

I am not too familiar with German literature, but I have read my share of Psychology works. I take that you are familiar with the works of Sigmund, or at least know his "general ideas".
Keeping this in mind, the word "Jenseits", in my opinion, indeed refers to "beyond". I do think that a better translation should be available for this purpose, but as often is the case, a book has to be made interesting enough for people to pick up (=buy!). In other words, don't worry about the exact meaning of Jenseits and/or beyond in this context................... (as long as you know that the two words in this context both refer to the underlying, or deeper, meaning in nearly all Sigmund's ideas).

And in my opinion, the word "pleasure" in the title doesn't give proper credit to Sigmund's work (and I believe is added to attract more byers); if one wants to read more "behind the lines" (about the sexual/habitual needs of people) than there actually is in the books, than you can go very far (if you know what I mean).
In this respect, the word "Lustprinzips" gives a better description than "pleasure" does, in the general meaning of Sigmund's thoughts and ideas. (But of course, the interpretation of pleasure, lust, erotic experiences, etc. and the thoughts and habits people have about this, is a very wide and subjective matter all the same...........).
And if you read several psychology works, you know by now that everyone has his or her own "speciality" or "area", I refer to Maslow, Freud, Watson, Jung. (among others).

Kind regards,

Somerset.



Laurens Landkroon
Local time: 20:14
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Many thanks to all of you!
What a pity that I cannot devide the points. I would like to greet my dear friend Janfri with great pleasure. Y deseo que tenga gran éxito! Mil grácias.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
beyond the pleasure principle


Explanation:
The problem is with the term "principle of pleasure", which does not sound natural. The consecrated term/standard collocation is "pleasure principle, as the title of Freud's book has entered the general "consciousness" (soory, I'm not doing it on purpose!):

Amazon.com: Books: Beyond the Pleasure Principle (Norton Library ...
Amazon.com: Books: Beyond the Pleasure Principle (Norton Library (Paperback)) by
Sigmund Freud.

Pleasure Principle
Pleasure Principle. The tendency to seek pleasure and avoid pain. In Freud's
theory, this principle rules the Id, but is at least partly repressed by the ...
www.utilitarianism.com/pleasureprinciple.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 11 mins (2005-04-27 12:37:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pleasure Principle
The tendency to seek pleasure and avoid pain. In Freud\'s theory, this principle rules the Id, but is at least partly repressed by the \'reality principle\'. The origin of this expression can be traced to G Th. Fechner (1801-87), who used the German equivalent Lustprinzip in the defined sense in an article published in 1848. The theory that all action is determined by the prospect of pleasure is called psychological hedonism.

The Penguin Dictionary of Philosophy
ed. Thomas Mautner
ISBN 0-14-051250-0



mckinnc
Local time: 20:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  gangels: and "On Germany after Luther"
3 hrs
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