das gemeine Wesen

English translation: polity / commonwealth

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:das gemeine Wesen
English translation:polity / commonwealth
Entered by: Marcus Malabad

12:03 Jul 9, 2006
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
German term or phrase: das gemeine Wesen
Hi,
The term is taken from Immanuel Kant's writings, although I have seen it on the net used by others, but I could not really find the right translation.

"...dass nämlich die dem Gesetz Gehorchenden auch zugleich, vereinigt, gesetzgebend sein sollen, liegt bei allen Staatsformen zum Grunde, und DAS GEMEINE WESEN, welches ihr, gemäss durch reine Vernuftbegriffe gedacht, ein platinisches Ideal heisst..."

Thanks for any help

Yiftah
Yiftah Hellerman-Carmel
Germany
Local time: 19:05
community
Explanation:
old german for "gemeinwesen"
Selected response from:

Pappmaul
Local time: 18:05
Grading comment
Thanks :-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4common being
Salvador Scofano and Gry Midttun
3 +4Post-grading background info
Kim Metzger
4 -2community
Pappmaul


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
community


Explanation:
old german for "gemeinwesen"

Pappmaul
Local time: 18:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks :-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Ian M-H (X): This appears to be a guess - or have you seen a translation/discussion of Kant's writings where "community" is preferred in this context to "commonwealth"? Answering specialist questions without specialist knowledge isn't helpful to askers.
1 hr

disagree  Francis Lee (X): Native English speaker? Träum weiter ...
1 day 1 hr
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
common being


Explanation:
Post-Structuralism and the Question of History - [ Traduzir esta página ]The argument runs as follows: the existence of the (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the ...
phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm - 90k - Em cache - Páginas Semelhantes


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2006-07-09 12:13:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The right reference I wanted to paste is:

Post-Structuralism and the Question of History - [ Traduzir esta página ]The argument runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the ...
phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm - 90k - Em cache - Páginas Semelhantes


Salvador Scofano and Gry Midttun
Norway
Local time: 19:05
Native speaker of: Native in NorwegianNorwegian, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think your translation is literal, and does not translate the meaning. But thanks for helping.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Zoe Green
0 min
  -> Thanks

agree  Henry Schroeder: http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q="the common being" Kant&...
0 min
  -> Thanks

agree  MMUlr: ???? why so much research and checking the Kant-related texts? ... ;-))
39 mins

agree  Kim Metzger: This would appear to be the best translation. See below.
43 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Post-grading background info


Explanation:
Dear Yiftah - I hope the next time you visit us with an interesting and challenging term you remember KudoZ rule 2.11 for asking questions:

Sufficient time should be allowed for responses to be made. It is recommended that askers allow at least twenty-four (24) hours to pass before closing a question.

Kant, AA VII : Der Streit der Fakultäten - The Contest of Faculties

zugleich, vereinigt, gesetzgebend sein sollen, liegt bei allen Staatsformen zum Grunde, und das gemeine Wesen, welches, ihr gemäß durch reine Vernunftbegriffe gedacht, ein platonisches Ideal heißt ( respublica noumenon ),

http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/Kant/aa07/091.html

In general in Kant's work the cognitive phrase, with its double criterion of pertinence (with respect to negation or the principle of contradiction on the one hand, and to intuitive perception on the other), is opposed to vain hopes, false promises and prophecies. It is used to refute the right of insurrection and to condemn the violent substitution of a new authority for the old one. The argument runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the understanding) or objective-teleological (finality in organised beings). This common being's proximity to the Good is judged in a subjective-teleological phrase (moral finality in rational beings). Revolution breaks open (Abbruch) an existing common being: another cannot fail to replace it (by natural law). The heterogeneity of the two families of phrases is not modified. Revolutionary politics is based on a transcendental illusion in the political domain, confusing what can be presented as an object for a cognitive phrase and what can be presented as an object for a speculative and/or ethical phrase - in other words it confuses schemata or examples with analoga. The progress of a common being for the better is not to be judged on the basis of empirical intuition, but on the basis of signs.

http://phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm

Post-Structuralism and the Question of History
The name 'Kant' (it is not the only one) marks at once the prologue and the ... runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is ...

phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm

Hence arises a state, a republic, a “common being” Wesen].370 These three concepts are identical, if one takes the word republic in the most general sense, as its chief significance demands. A state or republic, however, is a society of human beings who have combined with one another in order to promote their common happiness under a sovereign power; or, in other words, a state consists of many families, that have united their energies and their will with one another in order to combine the happiness of each particular family with the common good (§6).

http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/small/Cameralist...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-07-09 13:14:24 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

MMUIr's suggestion is excellent:

The fully achieved version of such a society would be what Kant
terms an ethical commonwealth (“ethisches gemeines Wesen”).
An ethical commonwealth is a “union of men under merely moral
[as opposed to juridical] laws” ; it can exist in the midst of a political commonwealth; it may even include all the members of a
political commonwealth (R 86). However, in human hands this
ethical ideal “dwindles markedly” (R 91), although it can be
approximated, more or less well, by the visible church (R 91ff.).

http://www.tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/oneill97.pdf


Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 12:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 33
Notes to answerer
Asker: First I want to thank all of you who answered!! The reason I closed the question so early is that I found my answer and so no point in troubling more people with it. But I still find the first translation the closest, and the hint Salvador gave me, that it is an old German word "Gemeinwesen" helped, and then I could find the most appropriate translation which is "polity". Mary J. Gregor translates this term (I found this translation only just a few minutes ago) to "body politic" (in Kant's The Conflict of Faculties). So I still maintain my view that common being would be a literal translation, whereas Polity or even community fit much better to the text and meaning.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MMUlr: Nice contribution, Kim! (and you can also find "commonwealth" for gemeines Wesen.)
4 mins
  -> Yes - nice suggestion!

agree  Ian M-H (X): Definitely "commonwealth" in this context. "Der Streit der Fakultäten" is also (most often?) translated as "The Conflict of the Faculties" (rather than "contest").
55 mins
  -> Yes - The Conflict of Faculties http://www.rep.routledge.com/article/DB047

agree  Francis Lee (X): words fail me, Kim, except: chapeau ...
1 hr

agree  Lancashireman: This outcome of this question, the hasty manner in which it was graded, the snooty comment to the answerer above… This page is looking increasingly farcical with every hour that passes. The chances of the asker returning are, however, probably slender.
1 hr
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