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ungestielten Antennen

English translation: directly attached antennae

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:ungestielten Antennen
English translation:directly attached antennae
Entered by: Susan Welsh
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18:05 Sep 22, 2011
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Archaeology / Roman Empire swords
German term or phrase: ungestielten Antennen
I know that the antennae are translated the same in English and refer to a kind of pommel between the hilt and the blade; but what kind of "Stiel" is meant? I can't find this in English with "stalk," "shaft," or "stem."

Als speziell keltiberische Waffen mit möglicher Vorbildfunktion kommen im späten 3. Jh. v. Chr. entweder Kurzschwerter mit ungestielten Antennen in Betracht oder die sogenannten "Kastilischen Latèneschwerter".

Thanks in advance!
Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 03:42
antennae attached directly (to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever)
Explanation:
I'm copy-pasting my comment in the Discussion box above:

'Ungestielt' makes me think of 'sessile' in the botany context, which of course would be completely off tangent here. However, the word 'sessile' prompts me to think along the lines of 'attached directly to'. Antennae attached directly to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever.
Selected response from:

xxxgoodword
Grading comment
Thanks to all. I'm afraid the more I read Alison's references (which I very much appreciate), the more confused I become. I think this sounds the most likely, but my confidence level is about a 3. If I get an answer from the client to my query on this term, I'll come back and note it here. I used "short sword with directly attached antennae."
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3antennae attached directly (to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever)xxxgoodword
2not attached to {or, part of} the tang
jccantrell
1bare hilts with no grips
Alison Kirkland


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
not attached to {or, part of} the tang


Explanation:
I have seen 'Stiel' used to describe the tang of a sword. This is the extension of the sword metal that goes beyond the hilt and is used as part of the handle. It may be that this 'ungestielt' term means that the spiral pieces at the top are not part of or attached to the tang of the sword.

Sorry, this is just above a guess.


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_%28weaponry%29
jccantrell
United States
Local time: 00:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ungestielte Antennen
antennae attached directly (to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever)


Explanation:
I'm copy-pasting my comment in the Discussion box above:

'Ungestielt' makes me think of 'sessile' in the botany context, which of course would be completely off tangent here. However, the word 'sessile' prompts me to think along the lines of 'attached directly to'. Antennae attached directly to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever.

xxxgoodword
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks to all. I'm afraid the more I read Alison's references (which I very much appreciate), the more confused I become. I think this sounds the most likely, but my confidence level is about a 3. If I get an answer from the client to my query on this term, I'll come back and note it here. I used "short sword with directly attached antennae."
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
bare hilts with no grips


Explanation:
If you look in an etymological dictionary like Duden, both "Stiel" and "Antenne" come from roots meaning "rod", but "Stiel" is used to mean "handle", something that is meant to be gripped. And "Schwertstiel" means "sword handle" (try Google Images). Ignoring its botannical meaning, "ungestielt" may mean "not converted into a handle".La Tene swords were found with no organic material (bindings etc.) used to form a grip, with the sword handle just a bare metal rod (see web link):

"In virtually all Celtic sword finds, the organic (bone, wood, horn, etc.) hilt and grip materials are non-existent."

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Note added at 17 hrs (2011-09-23 11:12:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

When I wrote that, I imagined that "antenna" might refer to the bare rod of the sword's handle. The book you refer to, though, suggests that the "antenna pommel" are the two sticky-out bits on the end of the hilt, which do indeed look like insect antennae. OK, I should have checked that out first.

You wrote "a kind of pommel between the hilt and the blade", which confused me. I'm pretty sure that the pommel is the part on the end of the handle (try a dictionary). I think the crossways piece between the blade and the hilt is called the "guard" or "cross-guard", because it's there to stop an opponent's blade sliding up your sword and finding your hand. (In the pictures of La Tene swords, both ends of the handle (guards and pommel) look the same - same sticky-out bits)

If antennae means the things on the pommel/guard and not the hilt, I suppose it's possible that "ungestielt", means something like "non-extended", non-branching" or "non-curving", although I'm not sure exactly why your text would note this detail. Perhaps the best bet would to look for English-language information on this type of sword.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2011-09-23 11:15:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I suppose it's possible that "ungestielt", means something like "non-extended", non-branching" or "non-curving"

Or, for that matter, "not thin and/or straight"


    Reference: http://www.myarmoury.com/review_alb_latene.html
Alison Kirkland
Local time: 08:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: That's useful, but what about the antennae part?

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Voters for reclassification
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PRO / non-PRO
PRO (3): Susanne Schiewe, Coqueiro, Johanna Timm, PhD


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Changes made by editors
Sep 24, 2011 - Changes made by Susan Welsh:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/625898">Susan Welsh's</a> old entry - "ungestielten Antennen" » "antennae attached directly (to the hilt/handle/pommel/whatever)"
Sep 22, 2011 - Changes made by Johanna Timm, PhD:
LevelNon-PRO » PRO


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