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KudoZ home » German to English » Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting

Das wahre Leben im Falschen

English translation: their real life into their false one

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16:56 Nov 23, 2008
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
German term or phrase: Das wahre Leben im Falschen
Der komplette Satz: Die Zeit verrinnt. Und das, wo junge Iraner das Gefühl haben, ihnen laufe die Zeit davon, weil sie sich immer nur ein paar Stunden wahres Leben im Falschen erschleichen, erlügen, ertricksen können."

Hier geht es un einem Artikel über den Iran, darüber dass die Leute 2 Identitäten haben, 1 für die Außenwelt, eine Art Fassade, und 1 innere, private Welt.
Pihoqahiak
English translation:their real life into their false one
Explanation:
I think you need to look at the sentence as a whole to understand this better. "...since they keep finding themselves with just a couple of hours in which to sneak their real life into their false one..."

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Note added at 39 mins (2008-11-23 17:35:28 GMT)
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Filling out the rest is not so easy, and maybe needs some syntactical rearrangement: "...a couple of hours in which they can sneak their real life into their false one, even by deceit and trickery."
I don't see how erluegen and ertricken can be translated as transitive verbs in English, at least in this sentence.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-11-24 11:38:25 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to be of help, Pihoqahiak. Better fix the typo in "falschen" for the glossary, after all this discussion!
Selected response from:

Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 06:09
Grading comment
This was the one the author liked (I offered her Lonnie's version too). Thanks to everyone for helping, my mind was totally blank when I read this sentence :-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +6their real life into their false one
Susan Welsh
3authentic life within a false reality/social context/worldLonnie Legg
3real/true life inside/within a fake world
Ivan Nieves
2artificial world of escape (escapism?)
Jonathan MacKerron
Summary of reference entries provided
nach Duden
Ryan Montcalm
Anspielung?
Milan Nešpor

Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
real/true life inside/within a fake world


Explanation:
Just an idea, maybe this can help!
Cheers and have a nice sunday!

Ivan Nieves
Switzerland
Local time: 12:09
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in SpanishSpanish
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
artificial world of escape (escapism?)


Explanation:
another idea

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-11-23 19:05:06 GMT)
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living their real lives behind closed doors

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
authentic life within a false reality/social context/world


Explanation:
I know true isn't the same thing as authentic, but I think authentic in the existentialist sense fits here: "...denoting an emotionately appropriate, significant, purposive, and responsible mode of human life." (I agree that it's a reference to the Adorno idea. I.e. "das Falsche" refers not only to their own lives but especially to the social reality.)

"...because they're always forced to sneak, lie and trick for a few hours of authentic life within their false context."

Lonnie Legg
Germany
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Susan Welsh: Hmm, interesting. But the questioner mentions their sense of having two identities. Of course, the false life (identity) exists because of the social context in which the person lives, so the two are very close.
29 mins
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
their real life into their false one


Explanation:
I think you need to look at the sentence as a whole to understand this better. "...since they keep finding themselves with just a couple of hours in which to sneak their real life into their false one..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2008-11-23 17:35:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Filling out the rest is not so easy, and maybe needs some syntactical rearrangement: "...a couple of hours in which they can sneak their real life into their false one, even by deceit and trickery."
I don't see how erluegen and ertricken can be translated as transitive verbs in English, at least in this sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-11-24 11:38:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad to be of help, Pihoqahiak. Better fix the typo in "falschen" for the glossary, after all this discussion!


Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 06:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
This was the one the author liked (I offered her Lonnie's version too). Thanks to everyone for helping, my mind was totally blank when I read this sentence :-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kim Metzger: Nice solution and analysis. How about "sneak in, fabricate, weave a few hours of ..."?
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Kim

agree  Ulrike Kraemer: with Kim
1 hr
  -> Thanks!

agree  Helen Shiner: Well put.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Helen

agree  Kordula Coleman: Especially "sneak in" is a great way to translate "erschleichen, erlügen, ertricksen".
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Kordula

neutral  Lonnie Legg: IMO (see Adorno) "das Falsche" refers not only to their own lives but especially to the social reality.
6 hrs
  -> See below

agree  Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Harald

agree  Nandini Vivek
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Nandini. It always seems odd to thank someone who agrees with you, but that seems to be the courteous thing here. I would also be grateful if someone pointed out (correctly) that I was totally wrong! We're all trying to help the asker. But thanks!
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Reference comments


2 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: nach Duden

Reference information:
Substantivierte Adjektive mussten nach der bisherigen Regelung kleingeschrieben werden, wenn sie Bestandteil einer festen Wendung mit einem Verb waren, deren Gesamtbedeutung nicht ohne weiteres aus ihren Einzelwörtern abgeleitet werden konnte, zum Beispiel: auf dem trockenen sitzen (= „kein Geld haben”), aber: auf dem Trockenen sitzen (= „auf dem trockenen Land sitzen”).


    Reference: http://www.duden.de/deutsche_sprache/neue_rechtschreibung/ne...
Ryan Montcalm
United States
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Johanna Timm, PhD: genau
32 mins
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2 hrs peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: Anspielung?

Reference information:
Ich denke da an einen relativ bekannten Satz des Philosophen und Kunsttheoretikers Theodor W. Adorno, der geschrieben hat:
"Es gibt kein wahres Leben im falschen."
(Ich glaube in der "Dialektik der Aufklärung", 1947.)
Vielleicht hat auch der Autor der obigen Zeilen daran gedacht.

Ich weiß nicht, wie Adorno übersetzt wird.
Bei Google fand ich mit <real life> nichts, und mit <true life> nur wenig, z.B.:

He attributes to Adorno the claim that. ‘true life’, is not possible ‘in the case of a completely false life’, ...
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/brill/hm/2003/00000011/00000...
[die Anführungsstriche sind nicht von mir, M.N.]

BTW: Ich will hier keineswegs dafür plädieren, dass man die Begriffe so wie bei Adorno übersetzen müsste.

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Note added at 2 Stunden (2008-11-23 19:03:14 GMT)
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Und "im Falschen" halte ich für falsch geschrieben. Zumindest ohne weiteren Kontext.

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Note added at 7 Stunden (2008-11-24 00:50:33 GMT)
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Wenn nun doch darüber diskutiert wird:

Bei Adorno meint "das falsche Leben" die schreckliche soziale Realität, die Gesellschaft, welche *falsch* ist, weil sie nicht die richtige ist (= nicht gerecht, nicht gut, nicht human etc.).
(Lonnies "authentic" und "false" finde ich insofern passend.)

Grammatikalisch wurde hier nur die Wiederholung von "Leben" weggelassen (eigentlich: "kein wahres Leben im falschen Leben");
das *falsche* ist ein normales Adjektiv, das sowohl nach der alten als auch nach der neuen Rechtschreibung kleingeschrieben wird.
(Johannas erste Idee war die richtige.
Eine "feste Wendung" sehe ich hier nicht, Ryan.)

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Note added at 17 Stunden (2008-11-24 10:15:33 GMT)
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Ich habe es jetzt gefunden.
Der Satz steht in 'Minima Moralia', #18, und lautet richtig:
"Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen."

Für *right life* fand ich aber auch nur wenige hits.
Eine Quelle fand ich interessant:

Sätze von Philosophen können sich verselbständigen. Eine eigene Geschichte entwickeln. Sie werden aus dem Zusammenhang gerissen. Von ursprünglichem Verwendungsumfeld, argumentativen
Zusammenhang und Kontext einer bestimmten Philosophie losgelöst. Gerinnen zu Spruchweisheiten, gar Kalendersprüchen, die vielfältigen Gebrauch offen stehen. 'Dieser Sinnspruch ziert mittlerweile Kaffeetassen, T-Shirts und Wandteller.'
[...]
Dieser Satz wird in seiner Rechtschreibung [...] häufiger falsch widergegeben. [...] Das Falsche – vielleicht das große Ganze, das falsch sei, könne so gemeint sein. Im Original wird das falsche aber klein geschrieben. Es handelt sich also um eine quasi-elliptische, genauer eine Wiederholung weglassende Formulierung, ausgeschrieben würde es heißen: Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen Leben.
[...]
Eine Nebenbedeutung könnte aber auch die der Authentizität sein. Falschheit kann auch Unehrlichkeit, Unaufrichtigkeit sein. Ist deine Existenz also letztlich dir selber nicht angemessen, Verkleidung und falsche Haut, entfremdetes Leben statt authentisch und wahrhaftig? Dies ist die existenzielle Dimension der Authentizität.

aus:
http://www.florian-roth.com/texte/pdfs/Es_gibt_kein_richtige...

Milan Nešpor
Germany
Native speaker of: Native in SlovakSlovak

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Helen Shiner: Interesting and probable as a reference, though I agree seeking the correct translation for Adorno is probably not necessary.
38 mins
  -> Thank you, Helen!
agree  mill2: this is definitely a reference to Adorno
14 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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