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unter den naemlichen Verfuegungen und Beibehaltungen

English translation: according to the (self-)same instructions and (with the same) reservations

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19:31 Feb 25, 2012
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs / probate law / wills
German term or phrase: unter den naemlichen Verfuegungen und Beibehaltungen
This phrase comes from an 1832 codicil to a will in Pennsylvania. To put it into context: "Ferner vermache ich zu meiner lieben Frau Catharina, zu dem Andren was ihr vermacht wurde und unter den naemlichen Verfuegungen und Beibehaltungen, Aepfel und Pfirsching (wenn es giebt) so viel als sie fuer sich benutzen kann." I understand this as "Further, I bequeath to my dear wife Catharina, in addition to the other things that were bequeathed to her ____ as many apples and peaches (if there are any) as she can use for herself." But I'm not sure how to translate the phrase of "legalese." Any help will be appreciated!
Timoshka
Local time: 01:24
English translation:according to the (self-)same instructions and (with the same) reservations
Explanation:
The word "nämlich" as an adjective is given in Cassell's "New German Dictionary" of 1939 as meaning the (self-)same, so here these conditions have already been set out, I would imagine.

It isn't easy to translate "unter" in this context with one definition to cover both its implied references, and it doesn't sound very good either; hence my offering "with the same" in brackets.

The word "Verfügung" is given (op. cit.) as disposal, disposition, arrangement, order, instructions etc.

But let's face it, you're not translating a legal document for use in court, are you? So wouldn''t an accurate rendering of its meaning be the most important thing here rather than a legal, loophole-free translation which would stand up in court?

I'm just curious how everyone else would approach a text of this (age and) type, and would welcome any comments.
Selected response from:

David Moore
Local time: 08:24
Grading comment
Vielen Dank!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +1according to the (self-)same instructions and (with the same) reservationsDavid Moore


Discussion entries: 8





  

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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
according to the (self-)same instructions and (with the same) reservations


Explanation:
The word "nämlich" as an adjective is given in Cassell's "New German Dictionary" of 1939 as meaning the (self-)same, so here these conditions have already been set out, I would imagine.

It isn't easy to translate "unter" in this context with one definition to cover both its implied references, and it doesn't sound very good either; hence my offering "with the same" in brackets.

The word "Verfügung" is given (op. cit.) as disposal, disposition, arrangement, order, instructions etc.

But let's face it, you're not translating a legal document for use in court, are you? So wouldn''t an accurate rendering of its meaning be the most important thing here rather than a legal, loophole-free translation which would stand up in court?

I'm just curious how everyone else would approach a text of this (age and) type, and would welcome any comments.

David Moore
Local time: 08:24
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Vielen Dank!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: with the same provisions and reservations...maybe
8 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Feb 26, 2012 - Changes made by Steffen Walter:
FieldSocial Sciences » Law/Patents
Field (specific)Law (general) » Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs


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