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Tetraederlücke

English translation: tetrahedral position

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Tetraederlücke
English translation:tetrahedral position
Entered by: xxxRegina1981
Options:
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08:12 Nov 8, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng / Alloys
German term or phrase: Tetraederlücke
"Eingehende Phasenuntersuchungen haben gezeigt, dass durch die angestrebte Bildung von intermetallischen Verbindungen mit gleichzeitiger Einlagerung eines weiteren dritten Elements in den Tetraederlücken dieser Phase der gewünschte Effekt der Schmelztemperaturerhöhung erzielt werden kann."

I also found a definition on wikipedia:

"Die Tetraederlücke ist der Hohlraum in einem Tetraeder, der frei bleibt, wenn in die Ecken des Tetraeders sich berührende Kugeln gesetzt werden."

I'm sure there must be a technical term in English that corresponds to this definition but I haven't been able to find it. Can anyone help me?
xxxRegina1981
Local time: 23:56
tetrahedral position
Explanation:
These are known in English as the tetrahedral positions. See, e.g. Callister, Materials Science and Engineering. In your example: The tetrahedral position is a cavity (void) ...

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Note added at 40 mins (2007-11-08 08:52:45 GMT)
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Yes, of course, vacancy would be the correct term for cavity or void. In principle, vacancy is equivalent to "Lücke", but I would still use "tetrahedral position" as the correct term here.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:48:55 GMT) Post-grading
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From Callister, Materials Science and Engineering: Tetrahedral position: The void space among close-packed, hard sphere atoms or ions for which there are four nearest neightbours.

IOW, Gillian and Zareh are not wrong in their suggestions but they are wrong in their refutation, because these terms are all referring to the same phenomena.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 11:01:23 GMT) Post-grading
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From Callister, Materials Science and Engineering: These interstitial positions exist in two different types. Four atoms (three in one plane, and a single one in the adjacent plane) surround one type (of interstitial position); this is termed a tetrahedral position.

I have left out the references to figures in the text, but the author emphatically refers to interstices and interstitial positions, NOT the positions the atoms occupy. The INTERSTICE is known as the tetrahedral position. The text has a similar description for octahedral positions.
Selected response from:

Alan Johnson
Germany
Local time: 23:56
Grading comment
Thanks so much for all your helpful comments!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1post-grading answer: tetrahedral interstice
Gillian Scheibelein
4tetrahedral position
Alan Johnson
3tetrahedral holeZareh Darakjian Ph.D.
3tetrahedron cavity/gap
Mustafa Er (BSc MA)


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
tetrahedron cavity/gap


Explanation:
Die Tetraederlücke ist der Hohlraum in einem Tetraeder, der frei bleibt, wenn in die Ecken des Tetraeders sich berührende Kugeln gesetzt werden.


Mustafa Er (BSc MA)
Turkey
Local time: 00:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish, Native in EnglishEnglish
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
post-grading answer: tetrahedral interstice


Explanation:
Hi Regina,
You have already closed the question (you are supposed to wait 24 h).

I would NOT use tetrahedral position as this refers to the position of an atom. What you have is a tetrahedral interstice (or cavity) between the atoms as opposed to an octahedral one. This stems from the type of atomic packing (fcc or bcc). Alloying elements, hydrogen or carbon are able to occupy these interstices (solutes).

Take a look at the reference, it illustrates the principle very nicely.


Best regards,

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:23:40 GMT) Post-grading
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Note that "vacancy" is also incorrect - there is no atom missing, it is simply the shape of the gap between the "spheres" of neighbouring elements where there is minimal electron density


    Reference: http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/geology_revision/basic.h...
Gillian Scheibelein
Germany
Local time: 23:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 426

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.: I think I have a better grasp of this now. It's a context issue. When we are dicussing packing etc. I would use hoe, but if there are different types of atoms in the uit cell, then may be intersticial site or interstice..
10 mins
  -> "interstice" is the correct technical term. Hole is a more colloquial term, but acceptable, maybe interstitial hole. Interstices --> interstitial atoms, interstitial-free steel (rather than hole-free!). Cotton & Wilkinson use interstices!

neutral  Alan Johnson: Read my further explanations
46 mins
  -> I've looked at Callister's explanations on pages 71/72. He is discussing the possible positions of cations in a ceramic lattice. When the cation is in the interstice, it has a tetrahedral position. The text is rather misleading.
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
tetrahedral position


Explanation:
These are known in English as the tetrahedral positions. See, e.g. Callister, Materials Science and Engineering. In your example: The tetrahedral position is a cavity (void) ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2007-11-08 08:52:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, of course, vacancy would be the correct term for cavity or void. In principle, vacancy is equivalent to "Lücke", but I would still use "tetrahedral position" as the correct term here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:48:55 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

From Callister, Materials Science and Engineering: Tetrahedral position: The void space among close-packed, hard sphere atoms or ions for which there are four nearest neightbours.

IOW, Gillian and Zareh are not wrong in their suggestions but they are wrong in their refutation, because these terms are all referring to the same phenomena.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 11:01:23 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

From Callister, Materials Science and Engineering: These interstitial positions exist in two different types. Four atoms (three in one plane, and a single one in the adjacent plane) surround one type (of interstitial position); this is termed a tetrahedral position.

I have left out the references to figures in the text, but the author emphatically refers to interstices and interstitial positions, NOT the positions the atoms occupy. The INTERSTICE is known as the tetrahedral position. The text has a similar description for octahedral positions.

Alan Johnson
Germany
Local time: 23:56
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 73
Grading comment
Thanks so much for all your helpful comments!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jack Becconsall: Exactly. At the end of your comment, might cavity (void) also be called vacancy?
21 mins
  -> Thanks Jack. It's good to get confirmation from a real expert.

disagree  Gillian Scheibelein: sorry Alan, I hate disagreeing and giving a new answer at the same time, but this is simply incorrect and has been chosen too quickly - and entered in the glossary as well. For more information, please see my answer.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Gillian. I wanted to comment earlier on closing too quickly.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
tetrahedral hole


Explanation:
That's how I have learned it (for over 15 years)...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:32:31 GMT) Post-grading
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Ref: 1

The display below shows four atoms packed together in a closest-packed arrangement. This particular geometry is tetrahedral. In the very center of this tetrahdron is a hole. This hole is said to be a ** tetrahedral hole ** because the hole is surrounded by four atoms (the coordination number is four).

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:35:07 GMT) Post-grading
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Ref: 2

There are two types of holes in a close-packed structure. Octahedral holes are made from six anions arranged in an octahedral pattern. These are larger than the tetrahedral holes made from four atoms arranged in a tetrahedral. In a unit cell of a closed-packed arrangement there are eight ** tetrahedral holes ** and four octahedral holes. Cations fill holes based on their size and the stoichiometry of the structure.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-11-08 10:36:11 GMT) Post-grading
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Ref: 3

** tetrahedral hole **: a tetrahedral space formed by four atoms or ions in a crystal.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-11-08 15:57:44 GMT) Post-grading
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If I get a chance, I will show this to our Chem Dept Chairman who is a world renowned inorganic chemist and also his first language is German.... I will be interested in his response.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2007-11-08 17:01:28 GMT) Post-grading
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In reference to Alan's answer, I can see that **if** the preceding sentences used the adjective **interstitial**, then the use of **position** may be justtified. Also, material scientists and chemists may have different preferences... I think all of these should be taken into consideration. Based on these, I removed my **disagree** on Alan's answer.

Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.
United States
Local time: 14:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ArmenianArmenian
PRO pts in category: 162

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Alan Johnson: Read my further explanations. / You don't think all textbooks are wrong? Just the one I have? I have not yet used the word "site" - why do keep using it as if I had? I have provided explanations, quoted from a textbook regarded as standard in this field.
33 mins
  -> Dear Alan: I will not further comment on this. I did not say you used site. I am saying you usd position. We cannot change terminology by "explaining". The textbooks I am quoting from are the very backbone of inorganic chemistry in the world.
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