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Verfahren geht von ein. Lösung der schwerlöslichen Substanz in einem Lösungsmittelsystem aus

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20:17 Nov 29, 2004
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng / solvents
German term or phrase: Verfahren geht von ein. Lösung der schwerlöslichen Substanz in einem Lösungsmittelsystem aus
I'm at the proofreading stage of my work and notice I left this sentence out for closer consideration:

Das angewandte Verfahren geht von einer Lösung der in dem Nichtlösungsmittel bzw. Fällungsmittel wenig- oder schwerlöslichen Substanz in einem mit diesem Fällungsmittel mischbaren Lösungsmittelsystem aus.

On the work sheet:
The applied method is ... based on a solution in which the non-solvent or precipitation medium ... substance of low or difficult solubility in a mixable solvent system with said precipitation medium....

TFYH,
sylvie
sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 12:29
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Summary of answers provided
3 +3a first attemptKen Cox
3 +1My God, what an indecipherable mess ??
Alexander Schleber
3my Senf
Cilian O'Tuama
3The procedure used starts from a solution of the substance...
Richard Benham


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
My God, what an indecipherable mess ??


Explanation:
My best shot at a rewrite is:

"The applied method departs from a solution, in which the non-solvent or precipitation medium is a substance with low solubility in a mixable solvent system, within the precipitation medium."

That at least appears to be logical. Whether it is totally correct in chemistry is something I am not sure of. Syntactically and logically, I even think you can leave out the part after the last comma "..., within the precipitation medium." as it is a repetition. The sentence would then be:

"The applied method departs from a solution, in which the non-solvent or precipitation medium is a substance with low solubility in a mixable solvent system."

I am wondering what the reations of the colleagues will be.
HTH



Alexander Schleber
Belgium
Local time: 12:29
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  gangels: very good, but 'davon ausgehen' I would call here 'presupposes ' or' assumes' a solution; perhaps blendable for mixable, but you did cut the Gordian knot
48 mins
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
desperately seeking help with a sentence
a first attempt


Explanation:
There are better chemists out there than me, but here's a try:

The method that is used is based on dissolving the substance that is poorly or not easily soluble in the non-solvent or precipitant in a solvent system that is miscible with this precipitant.

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Note added at 17 mins (2004-11-29 20:34:53 GMT)
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My dico gives \'precipitant\' for \'Fällungsmittel\', but that seems a bit illogical in this context. Google suggests that there is such a thing as a \'precipitation agent\'.

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Note added at 1 hr 29 mins (2004-11-29 21:46:39 GMT)
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From a bit more research: I suspect that \'Nichtlösungsmittel\' and \'Fällingsmittel\' are quasi-synonyms or even full synonyms (with \'oder\' here being an \'inclusive or\', a.k.a covering all the bases), and I suggest \'anti-solvent\' and \'precipitating agent\' as the respective translations.

See e.g.

echnology Handbook - ncapsolutions.com
... b) In an alternative method, a supercritical fluid is used as an anti-solvent that causes precipitation of a dissolved substrate from a liquid solvent. ...
www.ncapsolutions.com/article.php3?id_article=99

Technical Program Paper Detail - AIChE
... In addition to the choice of solvent and anti-solvent system, this mode of crystallization is influenced by a number of process parameters which include:...
www.aiche.org/conferences/techprogram/ paperdetail.asp?PaperID=2175&DSN=annual04

Further, Richard may well be right that it means \'starts with a solution of the substance\' instead of \'is based on\' - I find the German a bit ambiguous

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Note added at 1 hr 39 mins (2004-11-29 21:56:46 GMT)
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For good order: \'precipitant\' instead of \'precipitating agent\'.

Ken Cox
Local time: 12:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 39

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Richard Benham: [...] Also, what is so illogical about "precipitant" when it's the same thing as a "precipitating agent" anyway?//"-ant" usually denotes agency. The stuff at the bottom of your test tube is more accurately called a precipitate.
1 hr
  -> Revised response: you're right about precipitant, I was confusing it with 'precipitate' (noun).

agree  Cilian O'Tuama: reading back on yours, I see it resembles mine so I'd better agree ;-) //But I don't agree with Zareh's second sentence. IMO it doesn't make sense!
3 hrs

agree  Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.: Except that I would put a comma after "precipitant". Yes, the solvent has to be soluble in he precipitant, otherwise there will be no precipitation!
4 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
desperately seeking help with a sentence
The procedure used starts from a solution of the substance...


Explanation:
...which is insoluble or soluble only with difficulty in the "non-solvent" [??] or precipitant in a solvent system which is miscible with this precipitant.

I don't think there is any trouble with the grammatical relationships here.

I can't find any definition for "Nichtlösungsmittel" (I haven't Googled, just looked a hardcopy dictionaries), but I don't think non-solvent really does the job. I think it is something which RENDERS something insoluble...like the precipitant. (A precipitant and a precipitating agent are doubtless the same thing, by the way.) I'm not a chemist, and so I don't know the technical term.

I would prefer to reword this slightly, but I suspect chemists must get used to sentences like this.

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Note added at 1 hr 15 mins (2004-11-29 21:32:07 GMT)
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Sorry, for \"insoluble\" that should be \"not very soluble\" or the like.

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Note added at 1 hr 52 mins (2004-11-29 22:09:20 GMT)
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Hello there Sylvie. Following Kenneth\'s suggestion of \"anti-solvent\" for \"Nichtlösungsmittel\", I have done some Googling, which confirms his impression that it appears to be synonymous with \"precipitant\".

This allows me to proceed with an idea I was thinking of earlier:

The procedure employed starts with a solution, in a solvent system which is miscible with the precipitant/anti-solvent, of the substance which is only slightly soluble or soluble only with difficulty in this precipitant.

This is a slightly less natural order (as if any sentence structure could be natural with this content!), but avoids any confusion.

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Note added at 2 hrs 1 min (2004-11-29 22:18:41 GMT)
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Hello there Sylvie. Following Kenneth\'s suggestion of \"anti-solvent\" for \"Nichtlösungsmittel\", I have done some Googling, which confirms his impression that it appears to be synonymous with \"precipitant\".

This allows me to proceed with an idea I was thinking of earlier:

The procedure employed starts with a solution, in a solvent system which is miscible with the precipitant/anti-solvent, of the substance which is only slightly soluble or soluble only with difficulty in this precipitant.

This is a slightly less natural order (as if any sentence structure could be natural with this content!), but avoids any confusion.

Richard Benham
France
Local time: 12:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
desperately seeking help with a sentence
my Senf


Explanation:
The method used requires that the substance, which is only sparingly or slightly soluble in the precipitating agent, dissolves in a solvent system which is miscible with this precipating agent.

assumptions:
there's no difference between Fällungsmittel and Nichtlösungsmittel
Lösung here is the act of dissolving and not solution

also, degrees of solubility are very clearly defined:
According to the European Pharmacopoeia, the following apply (figures indicating the approximate volume of solvent in millilitres per gram of solute):

wenig löslich sparingly soluble, from 30 to 100
schwer löslich slightly soluble, from 100 to 1000


Cilian O'Tuama
Local time: 12:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 205
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