denn (in this context)

English translation: This is so, because or: This the case, because.

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18:23 Jan 16, 2003
German to English translations [Non-PRO]
Law/Patents - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / General
German term or phrase: denn (in this context)
from cartel administration proceedings:

"Aus der vorstehend dargestellten Relevanz der Schreiben und Erklaerungen der Beteiligten zu 1., 2. and 3. (alle) vom [date] fuer die Entscheidung des Beschwerdegegners ergibt sich dann aber weiter, dass der Beschwerdegegner den uebrigen Verfahrensbeteiligten, darunter den Beschwerdefuehrerinnen, zuvor zum Inhalt jener Schreiben und Erklaerungen rechtliches Gehoer haette gewaehren muessen. Denn die Kartellbehoerde darf ihrer Entscheidung gemaess [Abschnitt] 56 Abs. 1 GWB nur diejenigen Tatsachen und bedeutsamen Erklaerungen von Beteiligten zugrunde legen, zu denen sich alle Beteiligten auessern konnten."

Please forgive me if I have insulted you with a ridiculously easy question. I never thought I would be asking a question about "denn" so this is a quite proud day for me:)

But I am. I had always thought this word was used almost exclusively as "because." It also makes no sense to me that a whole new sentence would be created as well-if it's a mere clause. (The author used "denn" this way many times in the document.)

Explanation appreciated.

Thanks.
Ron Stelter
Local time: 12:48
English translation:This is so, because or: This the case, because.
Explanation:
This is the way I handle this "Denn" situation. The word means, of course, "for" or "because," but we must make it work in English. You could just use a comma and "because" but then you would have a sentence that is much too long.
Try it; you'll like it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 22:20:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This so. because . . .
This is the case, because . . .
Selected response from:

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 11:48
Grading comment
Thanks, Fred. To be honest, I had really never thought of your suggestion, but it does seem to work.

Ron
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2because, since
Trudy Peters
4 +1for /since / because
Cilian O'Tuama
3 +2For
William Stein
5This is so, because or: This the case, because.
Dr. Fred Thomson
4For,
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
5 -1subsequently
ezbounty@aol.co
4For, in accordance with Section...,
Terry Gilman
4Let me try to explain
Steffen Pollex
3In fact, …
schmurr


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Let me try to explain


Explanation:
"Denn" is used in the sense of "because" here, indeed. You'll see that, in case you put a comma before then in stead of the dot, this will make sense. Just the sentence would get pretty long and togh to keep track of it. So they pu a dot which works in German.

Anyway, I do not see another way out than writing all in one sentence in English. Maybe, somebody will be able to suggest something more elegant.

Steffen Pollex
Local time: 19:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in RussianRussian
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
because, since


Explanation:
it DOES mean because, but you could start the sentence with sth like "the reason being that...".
Alternatively, you could put a comma before denn, but that would make it too long of a sentence.

Trudy Peters
United States
Local time: 13:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nicole Tata: this is because, the reason is that ...
20 mins
  -> Good suggestions!

agree  gangels: This is due to the fact that...
20 hrs
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
For


Explanation:
Here's my interpretation:
The idea is that the declarations of the person opposing the complaint should have been "disclosed" to the other parties beforehand are not relevant unless those declarations were made known to all the participants in the trial, for (since) according to Abschnitt blabla that is a prerequisite for the antitrust authority taking such evidence into consideration.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-17 16:32:44 (GMT)
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Grammatical note:
I agree that the conjunction \"for\" is confusing and archaic, especially at the beginning of a sentence. For what it\'s worth, here\'s the standard explanation of the difference between since and because:
a) \"because\" is used to introduce information that is new to the listener (e.g., I\'m not coming because my wife is sick).
b) \"since\" is used to state a reason that is already known to both the speaker and listener (e.g., \"Since we\'re students we should get a discount\").


William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 11:48
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Terry Gilman
54 mins
  -> Thanks, Terry.

disagree  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: Best solution. It is stylistically awkward to begin an English sentence other than a dependent clause with "Because.'
4 hrs
  -> Are you sure didn't click on the wrong box? I said "For", not " Because"

agree  Cilian O'Tuama: simplest and best solution, IMO
18 hrs

agree  HelenY: I would go with "since", both "for" and "since" are good ways of getting round this one.
21 hrs
  -> good idea, see note above
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
for /since / because


Explanation:
-

Cilian O'Tuama
Local time: 19:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 72

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cécile Kellermayr
13 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
subsequently


Explanation:
It stands to follow that,
or therefore,
subsequently is the best choice, which implies because of

ezbounty@aol.co
Local time: 11:48
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Cécile Kellermayr: Subsequently would mean that sentence beginning with "denn" is the result or the logical consequence of the first sentence. It´s the other way round, though.
13 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For, in accordance with Section...,


Explanation:
Agree with William

I'm glad you asked. I find "For" as a conjunction odd and old fashioned (I'm ..ahem.. over 40), but work with two even older translators who use it without hesitation to translate exactly the type of construction you are asking about.
In my own work, I would definitely begin a new sentence, but drop the "For" and probably start with "Furthermore, in accordance with..." since the writer is basically offering two reasons: it's reasonable and it's the law. Precisely the relevance of the information makes it apparent that it should have been disclosed earlier and to all parties. Furthermore, the law requires the authorities to consider only the information that is available to all parties.

That said, my understanding is that legal translations need to be very close to the original.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 19:49:41 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Since it is not cut and dried, perhaps I should explain how I arrived at the idea that the first sentence contains a related but not identical reason: \"Aus der Relevanz...ergibt sich dann aber weiter...\" By \'reasonable\' I meant: the information is relevant and should have been disclosed even if nothing in the law prohibited the authorities from considering information that has been withheld from some of the parties.

Terry Gilman
Germany
Local time: 19:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
This is so, because or: This the case, because.


Explanation:
This is the way I handle this "Denn" situation. The word means, of course, "for" or "because," but we must make it work in English. You could just use a comma and "because" but then you would have a sentence that is much too long.
Try it; you'll like it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-16 22:20:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This so. because . . .
This is the case, because . . .

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 11:48
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 37
Grading comment
Thanks, Fred. To be honest, I had really never thought of your suggestion, but it does seem to work.

Ron
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For,


Explanation:
Overlook the 'disagree.' Shouldn't have scrolled. W Stein's solution good.

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Note added at 2003-01-16 22:40:59 (GMT)
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And it\'s good for the reason indicated, namely, that \'because\' should not begin an English sentence unless it\'s a dependent clause.

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 13:48
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
In fact, …


Explanation:
if you think "For…" is too old-fashioned

schmurr
Local time: 19:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
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