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angelsächsisch (politically speaking)

English translation: Anglo-American

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10:11 Jun 24, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics / Geo-political terminology
German term or phrase: angelsächsisch (politically speaking)
I've come across this a few times now when a writer or speaker wants to refer (I assume) to (white) America/Britain in terms of intellectual/political provenance. Am I on the right track with this assumption? If so, how to get the meaning across without falling into all kinds of tricky generalizations about 'race' and 'nation'? Euro-American?
Here's the latest occurrence I have:
Strategies through which states specialize in what they offer on the global market: die angelsächsische Strategie der neoliberalen Depolitisierung, der Entstaatlichung des Staates.
Dr. Kathleen Cross
Germany
Local time: 22:57
English translation:Anglo-American
Explanation:
I am quite surprised that "anglo-amerikanisch" is not the source term you are working from, since "angelsächisch" also has a narrow ethnic connotation in German and is largely limited in proper use to one of the tribes which originally inhabited the British Isles.
In a political context, one speaks either of British or American foreign policy, hegemony etc. or, more often in more abstract analyses, of e.g. "Anglo-American" neoliberalism (which incidentally also includes Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders, even though their contributions to international politics usually carry much less weight).
--
Al-Qaida and anthrax have both now been discarded as too fragile reeds to sustain the projected attack on the evil axis. Instead, we are back to "weapons of mass destruction". This has served as the rationale for the Anglo-American bombing of Iraq, carried on almost continuously now for more than three years. Never mind that years of intensive UN inspections found no evidence of an Iraqi capacity to produce and deliver such weapons, whatever its intentions. Scott Ritter, ex-deputy head of the UN inspectors, has declared Iraq "effectively disarmed".

Al-Qaida and anthrax have both now been discarded as too fragile reeds to sustain the projected attack on the evil axis. Instead, we are back to "weapons of mass destruction". This has served as the rationale for the Anglo-American bombing of Iraq, carried on almost continuously now for more than three years. Never mind that years of intensive UN inspections found no evidence of an Iraqi capacity to produce and deliver such weapons, whatever its intentions. Scott Ritter, ex-deputy head of the UN inspectors, has declared Iraq "effectively disarmed".

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Note added at 55 mins (2004-06-24 11:06:28 GMT)
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Excuse the double quote

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 7 mins (2004-06-24 11:18:58 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

The distinctive legal tradition is the key to understanding the need for this distinction in language usage. The Anglo-Saxon tradition of case law or legal precedent, as opposed to codified law, along with the Protestant Christian influence in the law-making process is at least implicitly responsible to a large degree for the idiosyncracies of the British and American political traditions. It is clear that after 15 centuries of evolution, Anglo-American thinking only faintly resembles whatever social historians would have us believe may have constituted the original \"Anglo-Saxon\" mentality.
Selected response from:

Robert Schlarb
Local time: 22:57
Grading comment
That's the one I was looking for, Robert, thank you very much indeed. Given that I also have 'quality' clients that still insist on referring to anything 'British' as 'English', the sloppy use of terminology no longer surprises even if it deeply annoys me.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +4Anglo-Saxon
Heidi Stone-Schaller
3 +4on both sides of the AtlanticxxxIanW
4The Anglo-Saxons were not the original inhabitantsAnne Gillard-Groddeck
4Anglo-American
Robert Schlarb
3 +1This doesn't really refer to people as suchAnne Gillard-Groddeck
4 -1anglo-saxon
Stefanie Sendelbach


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
angelsächsisch (politically speaking)
anglo-saxon


Explanation:
Should be it.

Stefanie Sendelbach
Germany
Local time: 22:57
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Robert Schlarb: see Ian's observation
48 mins
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
angelsächsisch (politically speaking)
Anglo-Saxon


Explanation:
I think you can just use Anglo-Saxon. Angelsächsisch at least in US contexts doesn't refer to white but to a presumably privileged (non-Black, non-German, non-Irish etc.) section of the population; e.g. WASP white anglo-saxon protestant.

Heidi Stone-Schaller
Local time: 22:57
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Orla Ryan
1 min

agree  Sabine Griebler
4 mins

agree  Derek Gill Franßen: Yes, because of the capitalization.
5 mins

agree  Translations4IT
45 mins

disagree  Robert Schlarb: see Ian's observation
46 mins

agree  Alexandra Cox: Yes!
1 hr
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
angelsächsisch (politically speaking)
on both sides of the Atlantic


Explanation:
Just a thought ... perhaps you could say something along the lines of "prevalent on both sides of the Atlantic".

I'd steer clear of the word Anglo-Saxon - not a word relished by Celts such as myself (Irish, Scottish, Welch - oh, and most of the USA)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2004-06-24 10:27:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or simply \"in the UK, USA etc.\"

xxxIanW
Local time: 22:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 34

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Derek Gill Franßen: Yes, also good, politically correct (except to English-speakers living in Asia ;) and "free".
5 mins

agree  RobinB: or "Anglo-American". That's what's really meant when the Germans talk about angelsächsisch. Often used pejoratively, although e.g. "Anglo-Saxon GAAP" is commonly used in accounting. Originally used as a code word for Jewish ("angelsächsische Finanziers").
37 mins

agree  Robert Schlarb: at least in an informal context
46 mins

agree  Heidi Stone-Schaller: I have to agree with you, not because you don't relish "Anglo-Saxon" but because in this particular context it's about countries, not parts of the (US) population
1 hr
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49 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
This doesn't really refer to people as such


Explanation:
but to a political and legal tradition, anglo-saxon as opposed to continental (with codified legal systems) - exported to the USA.
In certain circles it is now identified with neoliberalism (but doesn't necessarily mean this).

As for the Celts, well I don't know about Ireland, but Welsh criminal law was abolished after the Conquest (1282). Welsh civil law co-existed with English civil law until the Act of Union (1533), after which it disappeared.

Scotland, before its union with England, had largely a continental legal tradition with codified law.

Anne Gillard-Groddeck
Local time: 22:57
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Simona de Logu: Anglo-Saxon is fine. Is used in this sense in English.
5 hrs
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52 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
angelsächsisch (politically speaking)
Anglo-American


Explanation:
I am quite surprised that "anglo-amerikanisch" is not the source term you are working from, since "angelsächisch" also has a narrow ethnic connotation in German and is largely limited in proper use to one of the tribes which originally inhabited the British Isles.
In a political context, one speaks either of British or American foreign policy, hegemony etc. or, more often in more abstract analyses, of e.g. "Anglo-American" neoliberalism (which incidentally also includes Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders, even though their contributions to international politics usually carry much less weight).
--
Al-Qaida and anthrax have both now been discarded as too fragile reeds to sustain the projected attack on the evil axis. Instead, we are back to "weapons of mass destruction". This has served as the rationale for the Anglo-American bombing of Iraq, carried on almost continuously now for more than three years. Never mind that years of intensive UN inspections found no evidence of an Iraqi capacity to produce and deliver such weapons, whatever its intentions. Scott Ritter, ex-deputy head of the UN inspectors, has declared Iraq "effectively disarmed".

Al-Qaida and anthrax have both now been discarded as too fragile reeds to sustain the projected attack on the evil axis. Instead, we are back to "weapons of mass destruction". This has served as the rationale for the Anglo-American bombing of Iraq, carried on almost continuously now for more than three years. Never mind that years of intensive UN inspections found no evidence of an Iraqi capacity to produce and deliver such weapons, whatever its intentions. Scott Ritter, ex-deputy head of the UN inspectors, has declared Iraq "effectively disarmed".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 55 mins (2004-06-24 11:06:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Excuse the double quote

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 7 mins (2004-06-24 11:18:58 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

The distinctive legal tradition is the key to understanding the need for this distinction in language usage. The Anglo-Saxon tradition of case law or legal precedent, as opposed to codified law, along with the Protestant Christian influence in the law-making process is at least implicitly responsible to a large degree for the idiosyncracies of the British and American political traditions. It is clear that after 15 centuries of evolution, Anglo-American thinking only faintly resembles whatever social historians would have us believe may have constituted the original \"Anglo-Saxon\" mentality.


    Reference: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,661436,00.htm...
    Reference: http://departments.oxy.edu/urc/projects/the_projects/public/...
Robert Schlarb
Local time: 22:57
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
That's the one I was looking for, Robert, thank you very much indeed. Given that I also have 'quality' clients that still insist on referring to anything 'British' as 'English', the sloppy use of terminology no longer surprises even if it deeply annoys me.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The Anglo-Saxons were not the original inhabitants


Explanation:
of the British isles. Their true origin is to be found in the Frisian islands and the hinterland along the north coast of Holland, Germany and Denmark.

Anne Gillard-Groddeck
Local time: 22:57
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 6
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