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Herrschaftsbild

English translation: ...view of the exercise of power...

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16:13 Jul 24, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / Machiavelli's works
German term or phrase: Herrschaftsbild
Hello all!
Now we're talking about Machiavelli, and I'm not sure whether this means that his work actually influenced the rulers of the time, or if it influenced our view of the rulers of the time. Anyone know?

"„il Principe“ prägt maßgeblich das europäische Herrschaftsbild der Spätrenaissance."
Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 15:11
English translation:...view of the exercise of power...
Explanation:
Machiavelli’s ‘The Prince’ gives the definitive view of the exercise of power in late Renaissance Europe

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Note added at 35 mins (2005-07-24 16:49:08 GMT)
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i.e. \"it influenced our view of the rulers of the time\" (your secondary question.

Re \'power\' v \'exercise of power\'
Results 1 - 10 of about 767 for \"the exercise of power \" machiavelli
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q="the exercise of powe...


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Note added at 41 mins (2005-07-24 16:54:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If a one-word equivalent for \'Herrschaft\' is preferred: \'rulership\'
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q="rulership" machiavel...
Selected response from:

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +5...view of the exercise of power...Lancashireman
4 +3portrayal of the ruling class
Parzival
4 +2attitude to State rulership
Stephen Roche
4 +1image/view of power/action etc.i8a4re


  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
image/view of power/action etc.


Explanation:
While his writings were certainly influential at the time, I'd say your sentence refers to the influence that The Prince still has on modern-day leaders. Have a look at the Wikipedia article and what it has to say about The Prince.


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchiavelli
i8a4re
Local time: 22:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  silfilla: ... power ... and yes, it's not limited to the exercise of power
1 min

neutral  Stephen Roche: No doubt Machiavelli is dear to the hearts of many of our modern rulers, but this specifically refers to Europe of the late Renaissance period.
23 mins
  -> Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not how I read the German. Could be either way, of course, but I think that's why the asker posted the question in the first place. If I had to guess, I'd stick to what I wrote above.
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
...view of the exercise of power...


Explanation:
Machiavelli’s ‘The Prince’ gives the definitive view of the exercise of power in late Renaissance Europe

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 35 mins (2005-07-24 16:49:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

i.e. \"it influenced our view of the rulers of the time\" (your secondary question.

Re \'power\' v \'exercise of power\'
Results 1 - 10 of about 767 for \"the exercise of power \" machiavelli
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q="the exercise of powe...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2005-07-24 16:54:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If a one-word equivalent for \'Herrschaft\' is preferred: \'rulership\'
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q="rulership" machiavel...

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 228
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  i8a4re: Nice
4 mins

agree  Wolf Brosius: use,manipulation of power.
5 mins

agree  Lothar Kneifel
56 mins

agree  Frosty
2 hrs

agree  Mario Marcolin: He was a good observer, Machiavelli
2 hrs

agree  Maria Ferstl
20 hrs

disagree  xxxlucasm: It is ambiguous whether or not the passage refers to contemporaries of M or to scholars today.
3 days21 hrs
  -> Thank you for your comment. I am sorry that you find the source text ambiguous. I am also sorry that you find the version that I have offered lacking in the requisite and corresponding degree of ambiguity.
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
attitude to State rulership


Explanation:
Machiavelli's 'The Prince' significantly influenced the European attitude to rulership in the late Renaissance.

Without further context, it seems to me the author is talking about the attitudes of people of the time. Otherwise the word European seems out of place. Why would he distinguish between what modern European, American or other scholars think about Machiavelli's influence?

Stephen Roche
Local time: 22:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Brie Vernier
12 mins

agree  xxxUSER00230: the German is ambiguous but i think this is the best stab at it
3 hrs

neutral  Lancashireman: I am slightly sceptical that contemporary rulers sat around reading Machiavelli trying to formulate a ‘Bild’. The opportunity to take a reflective 'view' or build an 'image' is a luxury afforded to modern scholars.
3 hrs
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
portrayal of the ruling class


Explanation:
I agree on the ambiguity of the German text. Machiavelli's "The Prince" was written as a provocation and seen as such during his time; however, his text is seen today as pointing out certain key elements in the exercise of power during the late Renaissance period. I would resolve the ambiguity in saying: ""The portrayal of the ruling class in Europe during the late Renaissance period is substantially influenced by "Il Principe". - See The Penguin Book of the Renaissance. 1964, p. 68f.

Parzival
South Africa
Local time: 22:11
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  verbis: bravo :)
9 hrs

agree  Dr. Christopher Brooks: Looking at the context and having read it, I would have to say that the ruling classes "portrayal" is precisely what is provided by "The Prince".
21 hrs

agree  xxxlucasm: This is the best way to avoid the ambiguity.
3 days1 hr
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Changes made by editors
Jul 24, 2005 - Changes made by Kim Metzger:
FieldOther » Social Sciences


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