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Vollkaufleute/Sondervermögen

English translation: see below again

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20:43 Sep 9, 2000
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
German term or phrase: Vollkaufleute/Sondervermögen
From a contract for rental of computer hardware: "Fuer Streitigkeiten mit VOLLKAUFLEUTEN, juristischen Personen des oeffentlichen Rechts oder oeffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMOEGEN wird als Gerichtsstand der Sitz des Vermieters vereinbart."
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 12:03
English translation:see below again
Explanation:
I have just finished reading through all the answers above and noticed one important point has not been clearly stated by anyone including myself. That point is the importance of the little word "oder".

"Für Streitigkeiten mit VOLLKAUFLEUTEN, juristischen Personen des öffentlichen Rechts oder öffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMÖGEN wird als Gerichtsstand der Sitz des Vermieters vereinbart."

There are two German phrases that you need a translation for:

"... juristischen Personen des öffentlichen Rechts ..."

=

"... public sector corporations / public sector enterprises / public enterprises / public sector legal persons /public sector bodies corporate / public sector legal entities ..."

(Zahn, Hamblock/Wessels, Eichborn)

I would choose "public sector corporations"

and

"... juristischen Personen des öffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMÖGEN ..."

=

"... public sector special/separate funds/properties/assets corporations or public sector special funds/properties/assets enterprises or public special funds/properties/assets enterprises or public sector special funds/properties/assets legal persons or public sector special funds/properties/assets bodies corporate or public sector special funds/properties/assets legal entities ..."

(again Zahn, Hamblock/Wessels, Eichborn)

For me, this is all getting much too long so I would write "public sector special funds corporations" but I am sure you could get away with any of the other combinations that you like.

Here is an example where parks, swimming pools and nursery schools are funded out of special funds. If a corporation owned by the town were to be established to run one of these community services, that would then be a "public sector special funds corporation"

http://www.wesseling.de/rat/verwaltung.htm

Here is another article from a few years ago about how one of these "public sector corporations" works

http://www.welt.de/daten/1997/08/28/0828de93124.htx

- HTH - Dan

Selected response from:

Dan McCrosky
Local time: 19:03
Grading comment
Wow! A lot of work went into that. I hope you can use the research for yourself someday. Thanks a lot. Kim
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
nasee below againDan McCrosky
naNote the dativeCami Townsend
nasee below if you have timeDan McCrosky
naSee belowRandi Stenstrop
na(see below)
Tom Funke
nasee below
Elisabeth Moser


  

Answers


22 mins
see below


Explanation:
Ein Vollkaufmann ist einer, der die
Pruefung vor der Handelskammer erfolgreich abgelegt und bestanden hat.
Im Muret-Sanders it is called:
Qualified merchant, full trader.
I guess qualified merchant would come
close. There is not equivalent term
in English, which has also a different
educational system and the chamber of
commerce does not give exams and titles.
Sondervermoegen=jur. (eines Gesellschafters etc.)separate estate,
(eines Ehegatten) separate property.
oeffentlich-rechtlich=public
thus, maybe public estate

Sondervermoegen=
Vermoegen, das zwar nicht--wie etwa
als juristische Person--rechtilich voellig selbststaendig ist, aber immerhin von dem uebrigen Vermoegen
seines Inhabers rechtlich getrennt behandelt wird; z.B. das der oHG oder das des Erbscheinbesitzers . . .

oeffentlich-rechtlich=Oberbegriff fuer alle Rechtssaetze, die das Verhaeltnis
zwischen dem Einzelnen und der oeffentlichen Gewalt (dem Staat; z.B.
Bund . . .) im weitesten Sinne regeln,
insbes. Verfassungs- und Verwaltungsrecht.
(Hoffmann Rechtslexikon)

Good Luck


    Muret-Sanders, Rechtslexikon
Elisabeth Moser
United States
Local time: 13:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 34
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2 hrs
(see below)


Explanation:
(1) Vollkaufleuten: full (or fully qualified) merchants(Schaefer)

(2) Sondervermoegen [eines investmentfonds] separate trust assets(Zahn); special fund (i.e. registered in the commercial register and subject to all provisions of the HGB)(Schäfer); special fund, separate property, separate assets (Romain)



Tom Funke
Local time: 13:03
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
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4 hrs
See below


Explanation:
VOLLKAUFMANN

I found this useful information:

Handelsregister
Hier kannst Du Deine Firma in das Handelsregister eintragen lassen. Für welche Rechtsform hast Du Dich entschieden ?
"Nach § 29 des Handelsgesetzbuches (HGB) muß jeder (Voll-) Kaufmann die Firma und den Ort seiner Handelsniederlassung in das Handelsregister eintragen lassen. Dazu ist die notarielle Form notwendig. Gehe also vorher zu einem Notar.
http://www.pcz.uni-dortmund.de/projekte/firma/dekoplus/info....

This confirmed my initial suspicion that it is "just a registration (we have something like it in Denmark - or had - it may have been abolished).

I suggest "registered bussinessman/woman/person" or perhaps "registered trader".



ÖFFENTLICH-RECHTLICHES SONDERVERMÖGEN

It's quite clear, of course, that "Sondervermögen" alone is "separate funds" or "separate estate" - but it doesn't fit into the context.

As it turned out, öffentlich-rechtliches Sondervermögen should be taken together. I found this:


1. If the buyer is Kaufmann (businessman, trader, merchant, dealer) in the sense of the Handelsgesetzbuch (statute) or juristische Person des öffentlichen Rechts oder öffentlich-rechtliches Sondervermögen (public authority), Erlangen is the exclusive forum (ausschliesschlicher Gerichtsstand) for all disputes arising directly or indirectly out of the contract.
www.qrm.de/agb-qrm-eng.htm.

and this:

9.4. If the customer is a merchant and the order is part of the customer's merchant business, or if the customer is a legal person of the Public Law (a "juristische Person des öffentlichen Rechts" or an "öffentlich-rechtliches Sondervermögen" as defined by German law), Munich in Germany (Landgericht München I) shall be the place of jurisdiction for all disputes arising directly or indirectly from deliveries by metabion. metabion reserves the right, however, to undertake legal proceedings against the customer at any other place of jurisdiction applicable to the customer.
www.metabion.com/terms/terms05.html.

and this:

Budapest is the only competent court in the event disputes come up in the legal relations between auctioneer and purchaser, also in case of claims out of bills of exchange and cheques, and whenever purchaser is a merchant, juristic person according to public law or represents public legal special property. The same court is competent if purchaser is not subject to jurisdiction in the Republic of Hungary, transferred his residence or usual place of abode into a foreign country or his residence or usual place of abode is unkown at the time an action is brought against him.
www.profila.hu/felt.html.


My conclusion is that the expression stands for some kind of public agency - so it's up to you to decide whether to use that expression or one of the translations used in the quotations or play it safe and say ""öffentlich-rechtliches Sondervermögen" as defined by German law".

I hope this is what you need - at least it's been interesting to me!

All the best
Sirius



    See above
Randi Stenstrop
Local time: 19:03
Works in field
Native speaker of: Danish
PRO pts in category: 14
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8 hrs
see below if you have time


Explanation:
"Vollkaufleute" =

Hamblock/Wessels: "general merchants or registered traders

Eichborn: "general merchants"

Romain: "fully qualified merchants under German Commercial Code"

The designation Vollkaufrau/mann/leute has nothing to do with passing any tests anywhere.

It does have to do with the "Handelskammer" though, through the back door. Here is a small part of the definition I had to memorize to get my "Meisterbrief", from "Was jeder Handwerker wissen muss" by Dipl.-Kaufmann M. Buch et al:

"Die Vollkaufleute benötigen einen kaufmännisch eingerichteten Geschäftsbetrieb und werden ins Handelsregister (Register of Businesses/Companies or Business Index or Commercial/Business Register)eingetragen. Für sie gelten die strengen Vorschriften des Handelsgesetzbuches (HGB = Commercial Code as contrasted to the BGB = Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch). Hierzu gehören vor allem die kaufmännische Buchführung und die regelmäßige Aufstellung von Inventur und Bilanzen."

From this we can see that if the business is complex enough (not just big enough) to need a complex commercial organization and a competent and complete accounting system, then it must be registered at the Chamber of Commerce in the "Business Register" and must employ such an accounting system.

Now it becomes clear which terms from the above dictionary definitions are important:

"registered" and "German Commercial Code"

My translation of "Vollkaufleute" would then be:

"Merchants/Businesses/Traders registered under the German Commercial Code"

"öffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMÖGEN" =

Romain: "special funds/properties/assets under public law"

Zahn: "public sector special funds"

Eichborn: severalty/separate estate/fund under public law or state/community operated fund

Hamblock/Wessels: "public/under public law special/separate assets/fund/property/estate

If you have no more context to let you know which to pick, I would use Zahn's translation because the source is relatively new and the term is shorter.

- HTH - Dan


Dan McCrosky
Local time: 19:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs
see below again


Explanation:
I have just finished reading through all the answers above and noticed one important point has not been clearly stated by anyone including myself. That point is the importance of the little word "oder".

"Für Streitigkeiten mit VOLLKAUFLEUTEN, juristischen Personen des öffentlichen Rechts oder öffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMÖGEN wird als Gerichtsstand der Sitz des Vermieters vereinbart."

There are two German phrases that you need a translation for:

"... juristischen Personen des öffentlichen Rechts ..."

=

"... public sector corporations / public sector enterprises / public enterprises / public sector legal persons /public sector bodies corporate / public sector legal entities ..."

(Zahn, Hamblock/Wessels, Eichborn)

I would choose "public sector corporations"

and

"... juristischen Personen des öffentlich-rechtlichem SONDERVERMÖGEN ..."

=

"... public sector special/separate funds/properties/assets corporations or public sector special funds/properties/assets enterprises or public special funds/properties/assets enterprises or public sector special funds/properties/assets legal persons or public sector special funds/properties/assets bodies corporate or public sector special funds/properties/assets legal entities ..."

(again Zahn, Hamblock/Wessels, Eichborn)

For me, this is all getting much too long so I would write "public sector special funds corporations" but I am sure you could get away with any of the other combinations that you like.

Here is an example where parks, swimming pools and nursery schools are funded out of special funds. If a corporation owned by the town were to be established to run one of these community services, that would then be a "public sector special funds corporation"

http://www.wesseling.de/rat/verwaltung.htm

Here is another article from a few years ago about how one of these "public sector corporations" works

http://www.welt.de/daten/1997/08/28/0828de93124.htx

- HTH - Dan



Dan McCrosky
Local time: 19:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Wow! A lot of work went into that. I hope you can use the research for yourself someday. Thanks a lot. Kim
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

22 hrs
Note the dative


Explanation:
Note that "öffentlich-rechtlichem" as it appears before Sondervermögen is dative because of the "mit." Wouldn't it be "öffentlich-rechtlichen" if this were supposed to be a genetive? I realize that certain preposition like "wegen" that were traditionally genetive are now often, if not usually, followed by the dative. But does this apply in other situations, as well?

Cami Townsend
PRO pts in category: 4
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Changes made by editors
Sep 17, 2006 - Changes made by Steffen Walter:
Term askedVollkaufleuten/Sondervermoegen » Vollkaufleute/Sondervermögen
Field (specific)(none) » Law: Contract(s)


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