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murky sentence?

English translation: for the love of legal murk

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19:19 Sep 15, 2001
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
German term or phrase: murky sentence?
This is still the cooperation agreement between two companies, the cooperation having to do with joint development of software solutions.

This clause has me stumped:
"Kein Vertragspartner haftet dem anderen Vertragspartner dafür, dass die Entwicklungsarbeiten erfolgreich abgeschlossen werden können, selbst wenn er seine Leistungen unter Beachtung dieses Vertrages erbracht hat."

I'm not sure who "er" is in the last part of the sentence, and it seems to me that a "nicht" is missing somewhere as well, but maybe my brain is just too fried right now to pick up on how this is meant.
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks very much for your help.
Beth Kantus
United States
Local time: 00:44
English translation:for the love of legal murk
Explanation:
"None of the parties to this agreement guarantee the successful conclusion of the development works, even if their performance has been in conformity with this agreement."

I have tried to turn the sentence around and make it inclusive (none of the parties). This maintains what I believe is the sense of the original, without getting equally murky.

HTH
Selected response from:

Alexander Schleber
Belgium
Local time: 06:44
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who tackled this one!

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1murky sentence?zapfsully
5I agree with Alexander!Beate Lutzebaeck
5ein dunkler Satz
Mats Wiman
4more murkUschi (Ursula) Walke
4for the love of legal murk
Alexander Schleber
4Legalese, how more murky can it get?
Maya Jurt
4 -2murky sentence it isUschi (Ursula) Walke


  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
ein dunkler Satz


Explanation:
No partner to this contract carries any responibility visavi his copartner
for the development work to be able to be successful, notwithstanding his efforts have been made in consideration of this contract.




    Norstedts+MW
Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish
PRO pts in pair: 1498
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
murky sentence it is


Explanation:
I wouldn't dare to suggest a translation but if you replace 'haftet' with 'garantiert' and 'er' with 'jener or der andere' it makes sense.

I understand that

None of the partners guarantees to the other(and therefore is not liable)the successful conclusion of the development(?), even if the other partner has fulfilled the terms of the contract.

I'm sure I understand it correctly, just put it into proper Engish!

Regards

Uschi (Ursula) Walke
Local time: 15:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 492

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  dieter haake: "er" is not the other partner (that would be "der" or "dieser"), it's the 1st partner himself.
46 mins
  -> OK, but I'm still not sure. The 'selbst' might be in the wrong place, then.

disagree  Alison Schwitzgebel: see above comment
4 hrs
  -> you are probably both right, I have another suggestion
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
murky sentence?


Explanation:
There is something seriously wrong with
the German sentence.
I completely agree with Uschi on the
"guarantee" part. "Er" can be any of the partners who fullfilled the contract.

Suggested translation:

No partner in the contract guarantees
the other partner successful completion of the work, not even after he
has fullfilled his part in the contract.

Hope it helps!





    German native living in the US
zapfsully
United States
Local time: 21:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 38

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Uschi (Ursula) Walke: yes but - the party who doesn't fulfill their part of the contract would be liable anyway, no ?
5 mins
  -> To tell you the truth: looking at the German sentence, I'm not sure! Sorry!
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
for the love of legal murk


Explanation:
"None of the parties to this agreement guarantee the successful conclusion of the development works, even if their performance has been in conformity with this agreement."

I have tried to turn the sentence around and make it inclusive (none of the parties). This maintains what I believe is the sense of the original, without getting equally murky.

HTH

Alexander Schleber
Belgium
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2340
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who tackled this one!
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Legalese, how more murky can it get?


Explanation:
I played around with haften-bèrgen garantieren in three languages. Now I would say:

No partner to this contract vouches for the other partner for the work's successful termination, even if he (the first partner) has fulfilled his part of the present contract.

Now mix all all our profound thoughts, shake them well. The result will be the perfect translation.

Greetings
Maya

Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 545
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
I agree with Alexander!


Explanation:
The German sentence is, indeed, perfect legal jargon (and makes perfect sense).

Alexander got it perfectly right, I would just like to suggest tiny changes:

"None of the parties to this agreement guarantee the successful completion of the development works, even if their performance was effected in conformity with this agreement." or

"None of the parties to this agreement guarantee the successful performance of the development works, even if such performance was effected in conformity with this agreement."

"Er" is whoever is under an obligation to perform.

KudoZ to Alexander!


    Own experience as German/NZ lawyer
Beate Lutzebaeck
New Zealand
Local time: 18:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2079
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
more murk


Explanation:
I might be on the rong track again, but I can't get over the 'selbst/even'.

Maybe there should be a comma after selbst?

'None of the partners to the contract guarantees (is liable to the others for)the successful completion of the (total) development works if his own performance has been in conformity with the contract.'

Of course, I don't speak legalese, but that one word is out of place in any language. That one comma would make the source text read:

Kein Vertragspartner haftet dem anderen Vertragspartner selbst, dafuer, ...
... and without commas the selbst would be misleading again!

None of the partners is solely liable, especially if he fulfilled the contract.

Not even if ...

I'm really trying!
Regards!
Uschi

Uschi (Ursula) Walke
Local time: 15:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 492
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