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rollen vs. walzen

English translation: cylindrical die (thread) rolling vs. flat die (thread) rolling

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:rollen vs. walzen
English translation:cylindrical die (thread) rolling vs. flat die (thread) rolling
Entered by: Languageman
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17:01 Nov 2, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Mechanics / Mech Engineering / Thread manufacture
German term or phrase: rollen vs. walzen
In the context of cold-forming threads during manufacture of threaded fasteners. This appears to be a fairly common distinction made in the industry, but I can't work it out myself.

As far as I can tell, these are both non-machined processes e.g. de.wikipedia.org has:
----
spanlos: .... Dabei befindet sich der Bolzen zwischen zwei angetriebenen, profilierten **Gewinderollen, -walzen** aus Schnellarbeitsstählen.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewinde#Kugel-_und_Rollengewind...
----

My context is:
----
Bei einer Sechskantschraube sind die Fertigungsstufen in folgender Reihenfolge angeordnet:
Drahtabschnitt, Vorstauchen und Reduzieren des Schaftes, Stauchen eines runden Kopfes, Abgraten des Kopfes zum Sechskant, Kuppe formen und in einem letzten Arbeitsgang auf einer separaten Maschine wird das Gewinde **gerollt oder gewalzt**.
----

Thanks in advance for your ideas on a Friday evening!

Stephen
Languageman
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:09
cylindrical die (thread) rolling vs. flat die (thread) rolling
Explanation:
:o)

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-02 19:00:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Answer to Asker: "No, I don't think there is any; and even if there is some obscure word for it it's unlikely that the reader will understand it."
Selected response from:

Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 14:09
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who helped out. I was properly confused by this until I saw Sven's ref's!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2cylindrical die (thread) rolling vs. flat die (thread) rolling
Sven Petersson
4 -1rolled / shaped
John Jory
3 -1rolling vs. milling
Paul Cohen


  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
rolled / shaped


Explanation:
IMO, this differences made in the German text are not critical. Both rollen & walzen is usually translated as "rolling", so I'd tend to use just one word.

However, if for some obscure reason it is important to use two terms, I suggest the above.

John Jory
Germany
Local time: 14:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 347
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks John. I was under the same impression, i.e. that the two terms were effectively synonymous. There are a surprising number of instances of both being mentioned though, so I started to wonder (Google on "rollen oder walzen" with the quotes, for example). My only thought was that perhaps this refers to the difference between a single and double roller system.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sven Petersson: Please see my answer and my references!
52 mins
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
rolling vs. milling


Explanation:
I'm not an expert , but it appears that threads can be rolled or milled.

"When milling threads to smaller diameters than indicated for a certain pitch/cutter combination, an incorrect thread form will result."
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:DIlldEVDmGYJ:212.209.32...

This is from a patent:
"Apparatus and cutting insert for milling threads into a workpiece using a single hard cutting insert..."
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4784537.html

"The next step is the milling of threads: Before the process of milling threads starts, operators must prepare molds and inspection tools, and then check..."
http://mail.chunyu.com.tw/eindex/product/main2d.htm

The more common term, however, is "rolling threads"...

Hope that helps.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2007-11-02 17:43:45 GMT)
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Webster's dictionary: To mill = (...) to grind, work treat or shape in or with a mill; to make a raised edge on (a coin or the like); to make radial grooves on the raised edge of (a coin or the like) (...)

"...a raised edge..." Hmm... The process of creating threads would match this description!

Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 10:09
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, this is what I thought of myself. I couldn't actually work out what the difference was in the English terms though!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sven Petersson: "Milling" is definitely wrong; please see my references! - Addendum: Yes, 'milling' is another way to produce thread, but it's neither 'rollen' nor 'walzen'.
32 mins
  -> Are these different techniques used to produce different types of threads, Sven?
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44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
cylindrical die (thread) rolling vs. flat die (thread) rolling


Explanation:
:o)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-02 19:00:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Answer to Asker: "No, I don't think there is any; and even if there is some obscure word for it it's unlikely that the reader will understand it."


    Reference: http://www.wegertseder.com/download/techdat/pdf/750-Gewindeh...
    Reference: http://etd.gatech.edu/theses/available/etd-07062007-114641/u...
Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 14:09
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 51
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who helped out. I was properly confused by this until I saw Sven's ref's!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Now it starts to make sense!

Asker: Any ideas for an adjectival form? This comes up quite often, so paraphrasing with "... formed with a xxxxx-die" or similar will be quite cumbersome. Thanks again.

Asker: Thanks for the additional feedback.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ken Cox: nice refs -- IMO 'rolled thread' covers both forms in English unless there is a specific need to distinguish the two (or three) methods. The fact that two different terms are used in German can be regarded as coincidental or irrelevant.
3 hrs
  -> :o)

agree  John Jory: With Ken
14 hrs
  -> One cannot generally state that it's 'coincidental or irrelevant'. In the either-or-situation (see Asker's examples) I would write it out in full the first time and thereafter use 'rolling'.
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