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der wievielte

English translation: how-manieth

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:der wievielte
English translation:how-manieth
Entered by: cogito92

06:31 Dec 30, 2002
German to English translations [Non-PRO]
German term or phrase: der wievielte
"Der wievielte war er nach der zweiten Etappe?"
"Der wievielte ist es heute?"
Is there an eng. equivalent to "Wievielte" in question form to the declaratory: "He was in second place..." "Today is the 14th"
cogito92
Canada
Local time: 14:59
how-manieth
Explanation:
There are some poeple who evidently use this form (see Google URL), even though the word cannot be found in Webster's or any other dictionary available to me. Since there seems to be no other way of expressing this, maybe one should use it after all.

First Presbyterian Pulpit
... They hear again (for who knows the how-manieth time) what the scriptures have all-along
said about the Messiah, then Jesus says, "You are witnesses of these ...
www.presbyterianwarren.com/resemble.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

WirelessAdvisor.com Forums - Alltel vs. Verizon in AZ
... have chnaged and I had my final moment with them when I went to their store a few
weeks ago and was treated so rudely, for the I don't know how manieth time. ...
www.wirelessadvisor.com/waforums/ messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=2127 - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Classics-L: Re: It is me versus I am it
... I'm having fun over on the Lingtyplist where the current subject is -- ordinal
interrogatives. They exist. The how-manieth posting? Greek: po/stos. ...
omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu:8080/hyper-lists/ classics-l/01-03-01/0552.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages


Selected response from:

Alexander Schleber (X)
Belgium
Local time: 22:59
Grading comment
Hello Alexander,
thanks for your response and particularly for your references.
Knowing that there isn't an equivalent, I never even thought of checking Google.
I whole-heartedly agree that "how-manieth" should be used since it is useful
and the meaning is self evident.
Csaba Szilagyi
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +10unfortunately not
William Stein
5 +2Yes, but ...
Chris Rowson (X)
5 +2(zilch)
Robert M Maier
4 +1how-manieth
Alexander Schleber (X)
5ranked
Anu Mukharji-Gorski
3Langenscheidt
Cilian O'Tuama


  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +10
unfortunately not


Explanation:
Too bad you can't say "The whichth?" or the "The howmanieth?"

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 14:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1734

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: there is no fixed term for this in English
15 mins
agree  Elvira Stoianov
17 mins
agree  Susan Geiblinger
29 mins
agree  Ellen Zittinger: what position, what time, what place and so on
56 mins
agree  Raluca Ion (X)
1 hr
agree  jerrie
1 hr
agree  schnuppe: ....you can say" how manieth"...but I wouldn't
4 hrs
agree  Ron Stelter
5 hrs
agree  Сергей Лузан
14 hrs
agree  Fumiko Murray
2680 days
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Yes, but ...


Explanation:
You can say "the how manyth?" but this is jokey, and also rather awkward. Of your examples, the first has to be something like "What place was he in after the second stage?".

The second would often be "What day is it today?", but this has the disadvantage of being ambiguous - maybe it asks the day of the week, rather than the date. The jokey "It´s the howmanyth today?" is sometimes used here to avoid this, when the asker fails to think of another solution, like "What´s the date today?"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-30 08:41:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some people say \"What´s the dateth?\" - \"Es ist der wievielte?\". Not me, though.

Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 22:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 768

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  allemande
11 hrs
agree  Сергей Лузан: "What place was he in after the second stage?" sounds quite reasonable.
14 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
how-manieth


Explanation:
There are some poeple who evidently use this form (see Google URL), even though the word cannot be found in Webster's or any other dictionary available to me. Since there seems to be no other way of expressing this, maybe one should use it after all.

First Presbyterian Pulpit
... They hear again (for who knows the how-manieth time) what the scriptures have all-along
said about the Messiah, then Jesus says, "You are witnesses of these ...
www.presbyterianwarren.com/resemble.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

WirelessAdvisor.com Forums - Alltel vs. Verizon in AZ
... have chnaged and I had my final moment with them when I went to their store a few
weeks ago and was treated so rudely, for the I don't know how manieth time. ...
www.wirelessadvisor.com/waforums/ messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=2127 - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Classics-L: Re: It is me versus I am it
... I'm having fun over on the Lingtyplist where the current subject is -- ordinal
interrogatives. They exist. The how-manieth posting? Greek: po/stos. ...
omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu:8080/hyper-lists/ classics-l/01-03-01/0552.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages





    Reference: http://www.google.be/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U...
Alexander Schleber (X)
Belgium
Local time: 22:59
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2426
Grading comment
Hello Alexander,
thanks for your response and particularly for your references.
Knowing that there isn't an equivalent, I never even thought of checking Google.
I whole-heartedly agree that "how-manieth" should be used since it is useful
and the meaning is self evident.
Csaba Szilagyi

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Egmont
4 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
(zilch)


Explanation:
I discussed this question rather extensively in a linguistics course (all the non-native speakers came out with "the howmanieth" as part of their regular English usage)... no there is nothing in the standard system of English.
There are even more ways to ask for an ordinal in German, like when talking about marriages:
"Zum wievielten Mal ist sie verheiratet?"
"In Spanien lebte sie mit ihrem wievielten Mann?"
(I'm always thinking of Zsa Zsa Gabor here)
Ordinal question words are not really common; they're *not* there in English, French, or Portuguese, but they are in German, Czech ('kolikaty?'), and Latin ('quotus? quotumus?').
I think someone is going to write a paper about ordinal questions...

Robert M Maier
Local time: 22:59
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Csaba Ban: ordinal question words also exist in Hungarian and Turkish, and all (if I am correct) Slavic languages
1 hr
  -> Oh yes Hungarian I forgot, that's where Zsa Zsa Gabor entered the picture... :)
neutral  Chris Rowson (X): I have heard English and American people using "how manyth". I don´t normally use it myself, but I might have done occasionally.
6 hrs
agree  Fumiko Murray: In Japanese and Chinese ordinal question is a vatal part of the language. I understand there also is the form in Finishe.
2680 days
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Langenscheidt


Explanation:
wievielt I. interr. Adverb: zu wievielt wart ihr? how many of you were there?;
II. Adjektiv: der (die, das) wievielte ...? which ...?; das wievielte Stück ißt du jetzt? how many pieces have you eaten already?; den Wievielten haben wir heute? what's the date today?; zum wievielten Male? how many times?; als wievielter ist er ins Ziel gekommen? what place did he come?; am wievielten August hat er Geburtstag? when in August is his birthday?

© 2001 Langenscheidt

Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 7294
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
ranked


Explanation:
not quite 1:1 to "wievielte", but this is how I´d put it:

How was he ranked at the end of the second stage?

What's the date today?

Anu Mukharji-Gorski
Germany
Local time: 22:59
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 4
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