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"Ja-aber-Spiel"

English translation: Why don't you - Yes, but - game

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Ja-aber-Spiel
English translation:Why don't you - Yes, but - game
Entered by: Sheila Hardie
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

09:11 Jun 1, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Psychology / human resources and games
German term or phrase: "Ja-aber-Spiel"
In solchen Situationen wünschen sie sich insgeheim (oft unbewusst), Entscheidun-gen zu vermeiden oder herauszuzögern. So kommt es, dass sie ihre Strategie, sich mit anderen auszutauschen, ins Extrem treiben: Die Beratungen ziehen sich ins Endlose. Es gibt immer noch eine Sichtweise, eine Information, eine Entwicklung, die es noch zu eruieren gilt – und somit verhindern sie Entscheidungen, die ja Festlegungen sind. In gleicher Weise wirkt das „Ja-aber-Spiel“: „Es mag ja sein, dass ich jetzt definieren müsste, was wie zu tun ist, aber es fehlt uns noch ...“

I have found information about this game in German on the Internet and understand what it is, but I am not sure how to translate it. Should I simply say the "yes-but-game"? Does that make any sense? Is there another equivalent game in English perhaps?

Many thanks in advance for any ideas.

Sheila
Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 09:12
Yes-but game exists
Explanation:
Its a part of Transactional Analysis. See a nice link:

http://www.2012.com.au/Ego.html
Selected response from:

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 09:12
Grading comment
I would love to divide up the points here, but alas I can't. You have all helped me so much - Uschi and Nikki with wonderful references - but to be fair it was Cecilia who first put me on the path of transactional analysis. So, thank you to everyone. I have learnt a lot here! Sheila
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4Yes-but game exists
Parrot
5 +1Why don't you, yes but
Nikki Graham
4 +1Why don't you - Yes but - gameUschi (Ursula) Walke
4The "Yes, but . . ." GameMary Wilburn
4"Yes, but ... what if" game!xxxbrute
4"yes, but.." kind of talkflash


  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Yes-but game exists


Explanation:
Its a part of Transactional Analysis. See a nice link:

http://www.2012.com.au/Ego.html

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 09:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I would love to divide up the points here, but alas I can't. You have all helped me so much - Uschi and Nikki with wonderful references - but to be fair it was Cecilia who first put me on the path of transactional analysis. So, thank you to everyone. I have learnt a lot here! Sheila

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sueg
1 hr

agree  Steffen Walter
1 hr

agree  jerrie
2 hrs

disagree  flash: semantically fragmented
2 hrs

agree  Nikki Graham
4 hrs

agree  xxxninasc
7 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
"yes, but.." kind of talk


Explanation:
expresses sense properly

flash
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
"Yes, but ... what if" game!


Explanation:
Another option!

xxxbrute
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Why don't you, yes but


Explanation:
I agree with Cecilia, but I wanted to give you this info, which is too much to put in an agree.
The full name of the game is as above, invented by Eric Berne, who was the founder of Transactional Analysis

PDF] EBENSSTILMODIFIKATION
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... a) Das Ja, aber"-Spiel der Trans- aktionsanalyse funktioniert in der Art, daß
die eigenen Ängste vor der Veränderung nicht eingestan- den, sondern auf ...
149.148.224.4/kup/pdf/257.pdf - Similar pages

The late Dr. Eric Berne initiated the psychiatric school of thought known as transactional analysis. The validity of his work has been rehashed for many years, but for the purposes of a writer who is looking for the psychology behind people’s actions, Games People Play is a must buy. He has written other books of equal worth, such as What Do You Say After You Say Hello and Structure and Dynamics of Organizations and Groups, but most of those books have gone out of print and will have to be located in used book shops and other specialty stores. Games is still a strong seller, however, over thirty-five years after its original publication.

Berne’s focused on patterns of action that people display over and over again, which he referred to as scripts or games. Some of these scripts required a crowd, while others could be limited to one or two people. He analyzed games such as NIGYSOB, (The initials SOB mean exactly what you think they do) in which a person who has the upper hand takes more pleasure in making the loser look bad than in actually winning. Another, Why don’t you—yes but, involves the interesting party game in which one person presents a problem and the rest of the group offers suggestions, all of which are turned down no matter what their value.
http://www.poewar.com/reading/games_people_play.htm

Games People Play: Berne labelled socially dysfunctional behavioural patterns as games, i.e. the repetitive, non-productive transactions to obtain strokes which reinforce negative feelings and self-concepts, and which mask the direct expression of thoughts, wants and needs. Berne described these games with such instantly recognizable names as "Why Don't You, Yes But," "Now I've Got You, You SOB," and "I'm Only Trying to Help You." His book Games People Play achieved wide popular success in the early 60's.
(2nd ref)

Why Don't You, Yes But

A trivial but commonplace example of a "game" is lamenting that you have some problem, and then every time someone offers you a reasonable solution, you tell a reason why it won't work. "Why don't you try X?" "Yes, but I can't do X, because of Y." And on it goes, for many rounds, until everyone gives up.

At the social level, the person PlayingToLose? is a reasonable adult, soliciting advice about how to solve a tangible problem. At the psychological level, he's a child trying to get other people to act as parents so he won't have to take responsibility for himself.

A person who really wanted to solve the problem would use their ingenuity to get it solved one way or another. A person playing Why Don't You, Yes But is actually exploiting the problem, in a perverse way. He's enlisting other people's help rationalizing a position of "There's nothing I can do", for whatever social benefits this brings.
http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?GamesPeoplePlay


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-02 05:32:55 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sheila, thanks to Uschi, I\'ve now found a good page in German on this man and his book of games, if you\'re interested:

http://home.t-online.de/home/humanist.aktion/berne.htm


    Reference: http://www.emotional-literacy.com/ta.htm
    Reference: http://www.lifesciencetherapy.co.uk/TA1.htm
Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:12
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Uschi (Ursula) Walke: games involve at least two sides, please see my answer
13 hrs
  -> Thanks Uschi
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The "Yes, but . . ." Game


Explanation:
Nikki has provided the information you need to give you confidence in the odd translation. This response just offers a form to respect the ". . . " in the title. In my view, "Playing to Lose?" would give the reader unfamiliar with Berne's work a better hint of what's afoot, but that phrase is not a trans-lation.

Mary Wilburn
United States
Local time: 03:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Why don't you - Yes but - game


Explanation:
to take it back into the original written by Eric Berne,
Games People Play, 8. Party Games, 4.

In German the game is also called WANJA
(Warum nicht - ja aber).

This translation, as well as the original, reflects the interaction.

HTH

Uschi (Ursula) Walke
Local time: 17:12
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Graham: Thanks for the info. Very interesting.
36 mins
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