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מופ"ב
אירוע כלילי רסנטי

Glossary entry

Hebrew term or phrase:

לשיעורין

English translation:

by installments

Added to glossary by wizard_of_words
Oct 30, 2011 16:09
13 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Hebrew term

לשיעורין

Hebrew to English Bus/Financial Finance (general)
From terms enabling a condtional licensee for a solar power plant to invest self-capital in the project
בעל הרשיון הממותנה יהיה רשאי להציג הון עצמי *לשיעורין,
בהתאם להיקפים ולמועדים המפורטים בנספח ההתחייבויות...
Proposed translations (English)
4 by installments
5 by installments; amortized
5 by Installments / in Installments
Change log

Oct 31, 2011 13:27: Doron Greenspan MITI changed "Term asked" from "לשירועין" to "לשיעורין" , "Field (write-in)" from "לשירועין" to "(none)"

Nov 4, 2011 07:22: wizard_of_words changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/65462">Jon Fedler's</a> old entry - "לשיעורין"" to ""by installments""

Discussion

Lingopro Oct 30, 2011:
Great research, Ty!
Ty Kendall Oct 30, 2011:
Forgive the misspellings of installments with all the missing "s"'s.
Ty Kendall Oct 30, 2011:
US/UK Usage After some research, it seems ironically enough that US Usage actually prefers "in installments", whereby UK, Australia & New Zealand prefer "by instalments". The figures:
FILTERED FOR COUNTRY
US Usage
In intallments = 1,210,000
By intallments = 122,000

UK Usage (with the British spelling "Instalments")
In instalments = 156,000
By intalments = 274,000

Canada follows the US example and Australia and New Zealand follow the UK.

Despite the fact that (as you pointed out) me and Lingopro perhaps use UK English, we are in fact supporting US Usage in this context, if the figures are to be believed. So I don't think it's entirely down to a US/UK dichotomy, especially since that dichotomy is eroding every day as the UK moves ever more closely to US usage practices.
wizard_of_words Oct 30, 2011:
Thanks, Lingopro!
In view of Joab’s examples, taken from American sources - which support my point - it seems to me that it may indeed be the difference between American English and British English (which you and Ty are native speakers of).
And at this point, I rest my case, as I’ve a job to complete.
Lingopro Oct 30, 2011:
I was certainly not suggesting a word-for-word translation, and as Ty said, this is a rare case where Hebrew and English agree with each other. I also agree with Ty that "by installments" sounds a bit off. <br>
As for Jaob's entry (Time Magazine): I think you can have victory by installments and still pay in installments.
</br>Lastly, if Babylon has any weight in this discussion, then interestingly enough it has an entry for "pay in installments", and no entry for "pay by installments".
</br>Perhaps the best thing to do is to enter both, as Wizard suggested.
Joab Eichenberg-Eilon Oct 30, 2011:
Time Magazine and Cornell Law School Cornell Law School: "the State may repay the Federal Funds by installments if the following conditions are met" (http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/430/48)
Time Magazine: "Victory by Installment: (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817237,00.h...
wizard_of_words Oct 30, 2011:
It seems to me that it's a matter of dialect and preference - please see for instance the following link:
http://www.netspeak.org/#query=by installments
and maybe both options should be entered ...
Ty Kendall Oct 30, 2011:
I don't think Lingopro is suggesting translating things word for word, but I think this is a rare case where Hebrew and English agree with each other.
Ty Kendall Oct 30, 2011:
Comparison "by installments" = 267,000 entries
"in intallments" = 1,690,000 entries
They may both exist, but there's something about "by installments" which just grates on the ear as not quite right (in my opinion).
wizard_of_words Oct 30, 2011:
Both variants are possible - you can google it and find for yourself - some 267,000 advanced search results
And by the way, although, as said, both variants are used, in this case, the reasoning of Lingopro is out of place, since you don't translate phrases, or any other text, for that matter, word for word.
Ty Kendall Oct 30, 2011:
Lingopro is right It should be "in installments". I've never heard "by" installments.
Lingopro Oct 30, 2011:
I think it should be "in installments" and not "by installments". </br>
Much like Hebrew, where</br>
אתה משלם בתשלומים ולא על ידי תשלומים.

Proposed translations

12 mins
Hebrew term (edited): לשירועין
Selected

by installments

המונח העברי נכתב לעיל בטעות - אמור להיוצ כמו בשאלה - לשיעורין
וראה
http://www.maot.co.il/doSearchSite.asp
בדרך כלל, המונח משמש בהקשר של תשלומים, אך יכול להתייחס גם ל"2. חלק של דבר כלשהו המסופק במועדים שונים." כאמור בהגדרה 2 בקישור שלעיל

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Note added at 16 mins (2011-10-30 16:26:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

אגב, במקום
self-capital
הייתי אומרת
owner's capital

וכמובן, בהסבר לעיל יש
typo
אמור להיוצ כמו בשאלה >> אמור להיות וכולי

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Note added at 23 mins (2011-10-30 16:33:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

בהתייחס לתשובתו של יואב,
כפי שציינתי בתשובתי, כאן לא מדובר על תשלום חוב, אלא על השקעה, ולפיכך המונח "amortized"
המתייחס להלוואה או למשכנתא אינו מתאים בהקשר זה
וראה ההסבר במילון מעות למונח זה
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
15 mins
Hebrew term (edited): לשירועין

by installments; amortized

Typo. Should be לשיעורין
1. חלק מחוב או תשלום שיש לעשותו בחלקים בתקופות עוקבות 2. חלק של דבר כלשהו המסופק במועדים שונים



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-10-30 17:29:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See examples:
Cornell Law School: "the State may repay the Federal Funds by installments if the following conditions are met" (http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/430/48)
Time Magazine: "Victory by Installment: (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817237,00.h...
Example sentence:

שטר משכנתה, בו אדם לווה כספים מבנק או גורם ממשלתי, משלם את חובו לשיעורין ובתוספת ריבית,

ניתוח לשיעורין (amortized analysis) הוא טכניקה לניתוח זמן ריצה לסדרת פעולות

Reference:

http://www.maot.co.il/lex3/glossary/g_3581.asp

http://u.cs.biu.ac.il/~asharog/2011/89-120/rec3.pdf

Peer comment(s):
neutral wizard_of_words : Please see note in my answer - not enough space here
8 mins
Time magazine and Cornell Law School are good enough for me.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
Hebrew term (edited): -לשירועין

by Installments / in Installments

Following are but a few examples, out of some 15,000 cited by Netspeak (http://www.netspeak.org/#query=by installments) for the use of "by installments"; anyway, in view of the discussion, I would suggest both possibilities.

I sell by installments, and when I do so I charge more than when selling for cash. Is it possible that I will be rewarded because I am helping the Muslims to buy ...
If I owe a past-due income-related adjustment, can I pay the amount owe by installments? Yes, anyone who owes money on their Medicare ...
When Federal payments have been made for claims that are later found to be unallowable, the State may repay the Federal Funds by installments if the ...
Algeria's Rebellion by Installments. by Azzedine Layachi | published March 12, 2011. In mid-February, with autocratic rulers deposed in Tunisia and Egypt, and ...
Payment by installments is a service that allows you to make your booking and pay it in several installments. A payment by installment will be accepted for ...
Restructure MeeGo : By Installments. I've just published a series of articles that reflect my thoughts on improving MeeGo and setting some ...
Selling by Installments; Stocks · Credit Cards & Investment ...
Shmoop guide to Charles Dickens Novels by Installments. Smart, fresh history of Charles Dickens Novels by Installments by PhDs and Masters from Stanford, ...


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Note added at 1 hr (2011-10-30 17:43:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Joab, you say: "Time magazine and Cornell Law School are good enough for me.", citing the first: "Time Magazine: "Victory by Installment: "
and the second: "Cornell Law School: "the State may repay the Federal Funds by installments ..."
well, thank you! This just goes to show my point ...


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Note added at 1 hr (2011-10-30 17:51:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

However, as noted, the term "amortized" has to do with the payment of a debt, such as a mortgage, by installment payments and as such, doesn't fit here.
http://www.answers.com/topic/amortize
Peer comment(s):
neutral Ty Kendall : We weren't questioning that both exist, just that perhaps one is more common and preferable, I don't think it's a US/UK divide either. Maybe it will come down to personal preference/style.
29 mins
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