Jan 30, 2007 13:17
17 yrs ago
Hebrew term
Clients you need for the work you love
Native in: English 
, Russian
Works in: English, Hebrew, Russian
pikudi
Hebrew to English
Other
Military / Defense
In a document on police brutality, the author suggests police should use administrative and ____ sanctions.
על המשטרה לברר את נסיבות האירועים שבעקבותיהם הוגשו תלונות, ובמקרים המתאימים לנקוט כלפי השוטרים את האמצעים הפיקודיים והמינהליים העומדים לרשותה..."
על המשטרה לברר את נסיבות האירועים שבעקבותיהם הוגשו תלונות, ובמקרים המתאימים לנקוט כלפי השוטרים את האמצעים הפיקודיים והמינהליים העומדים לרשותה..."
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +3 | disciplinary and administrative steps |
Eynnat
|
| 5 | command |
Akiva Brest (X)
|
| 3 | high ranking hearing board / committee |
Eytan Rubinstien MD
|
| 3 -1 | Administrative chain of command |
Gad Kohenov
|
Proposed translations
+3
6 hrs
Selected
disciplinary and administrative steps
Emtzai is not 'sanction', but 'step' (in this context). An administrative (or even disciplinary) procedure is not in and of itself a sanction, though the latter may lead to sanctions.
In any event, the word pikudi is used here in the sense of disciplinary, as distinct from administrative. Clearly, the chain of command is such that the higher ranks can implement such a discplinary procedure against the lower ranks, not vice versa.
The translation here is not going to work literally.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2007-01-31 10:09:28 GMT)
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In that case, it's 'management' or 'executive'. Israeli authors like using 'pikud' because it gives them a warm military feeling. However, the police is simply a body of men and women, staff and management, who are subject to a code of conduct just like any other corporation. The HR term in English that corresponds to what you describe is management/executive procedures.
Disciplinary measures/steps = emtzaim/tz'adim mishm'atiyim.
Disciplinary penalties/sanctions = onashim mishm'atiyim.
In any event, the word pikudi is used here in the sense of disciplinary, as distinct from administrative. Clearly, the chain of command is such that the higher ranks can implement such a discplinary procedure against the lower ranks, not vice versa.
The translation here is not going to work literally.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2007-01-31 10:09:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In that case, it's 'management' or 'executive'. Israeli authors like using 'pikud' because it gives them a warm military feeling. However, the police is simply a body of men and women, staff and management, who are subject to a code of conduct just like any other corporation. The HR term in English that corresponds to what you describe is management/executive procedures.
Disciplinary measures/steps = emtzaim/tz'adim mishm'atiyim.
Disciplinary penalties/sanctions = onashim mishm'atiyim.
Note from asker:
| This cannot be disciplinary measures, since disciplinary measures (onesh mishmaati) were discussed separately. In addition to punishing the perpetrators, the police would like to take "pikudi" steps to deal with this violation throughout the police force. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ron Armon
11 hrs
|
|
Thank you.
|
|
| agree |
Sue Goldian
13 hrs
|
|
Thank you.
|
|
| agree |
Eytan Rubinstien MD
: agree
2 days 17 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
3 hrs
command
פיקוד צפון = Northern Command
מפקד הפיקוד = Command (headqurters) commanding officer
מפקד הפיקוד = Command (headqurters) commanding officer
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Gad Kohenov
: We are talking of police units not army units
3 mins
|
| agree |
tania nogueira
25 mins
|
| disagree |
Eynnat
: Irrelevant
2 hrs
|
13 hrs
Eytan Rubinstien MD
Native in Hebrew
&
English
Medical, Medical-Legal, Pharma, Research
Native in: Hebrew , English
Works in: English to Hebrew, Hebrew to English, Arabic to English
high ranking hearing board / committee
in the US army, an errant soldier can face 2 kinds of disciplinary procedures: administrative and a hearing board.
administrative: usually a person of a higher rank than the soldier, usually an officer, signs paperwork demoting/punishing the soldier. usually for minor offenses with minor punishments. the decision is made by the officer alone.
hearing board/committee: members outrank the soldier, more senior than the soldier, more than one person. a hearing is conducted, with or without legal representation. offenses and penalties are of a more severe nature. soldier can be kicked out of the army or worse.
extrapolating from the US Army - pikudi - probably means disciplinary actions made at the level of the high brass.
FWIW: following an investigation surrounding/of the circumstances of the complaint, administrative disciplinary measures / procedures should be activated against / applied to the offending / guilty policemen and they should be brought in front of a (senior-ranking) hearing board / committe, as/if appropriate.
Please note the level of confidence <sigh>.
administrative: usually a person of a higher rank than the soldier, usually an officer, signs paperwork demoting/punishing the soldier. usually for minor offenses with minor punishments. the decision is made by the officer alone.
hearing board/committee: members outrank the soldier, more senior than the soldier, more than one person. a hearing is conducted, with or without legal representation. offenses and penalties are of a more severe nature. soldier can be kicked out of the army or worse.
extrapolating from the US Army - pikudi - probably means disciplinary actions made at the level of the high brass.
FWIW: following an investigation surrounding/of the circumstances of the complaint, administrative disciplinary measures / procedures should be activated against / applied to the offending / guilty policemen and they should be brought in front of a (senior-ranking) hearing board / committe, as/if appropriate.
Please note the level of confidence <sigh>.
-1
3 hrs
Gad Kohenov
Israel
Israel
Native in Hebrew
Specializes in field
Israel
30 years of experience+satisfied clients
Native in: French , Hebrew
Works in: English to Hebrew, Hebrew to English, French to Hebrew, and 8 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
98
Administrative chain of command
שילוב של מנהלי ושל שרשרת הפיקוד. או שאפשר לומר:
Sanctions at the administrative and command levels.
Command is both פיקוד and פיקודי . That's where the difficulty lies.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2007-01-31 10:06:33 GMT)
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My remark about Pikudim was directed to Akiva's answer, and not to you Eynnat. Your previous remark about me wanting people to do the entire translation for me was not appreciated at all. I am a paying member and I have 15 questions allowed per day it I nee them. You are not a paying member so save your nasty remarks to yourself. There are moderators here just for that. If they will decide I ask too many questions they will surely know how to contact me.
Sanctions at the administrative and command levels.
Command is both פיקוד and פיקודי . That's where the difficulty lies.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2007-01-31 10:06:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My remark about Pikudim was directed to Akiva's answer, and not to you Eynnat. Your previous remark about me wanting people to do the entire translation for me was not appreciated at all. I am a paying member and I have 15 questions allowed per day it I nee them. You are not a paying member so save your nasty remarks to yourself. There are moderators here just for that. If they will decide I ask too many questions they will surely know how to contact me.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Eynnat
: You are combining 2 terms that are being contrasted into a new one that isn't mentioned.
2 hrs
|
|
no pikud in the police only Mahoz (מחוז צפוני, דרומי וכו)
|
Discussion