aut aut organizzativo

English translation: organisational "must-dos"

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:aut aut organizzativo
English translation:organisational "must-dos"
Entered by: Tom in London

14:49 Jan 20, 2015
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Human Resources
Italian term or phrase: aut aut organizzativo
Ciao a tutti,

in una presentazione sul team work trovo un elenco di aut aut organizzativi, titolato anche in modo sbagliato perchè è scritto "out out organizzativi".
Segue una tabella con coppie di possibilità di azione.
Ora vi chiedo aiuto, a parte il contattare il cliente per chiedere se si intende l' "aut aut latino", come credo, o altro, io sarei per lasciare "organisational aut aut" nella traduzione. Cosa dite? Mi confermate anche se dovrei renderlo al plurale? io non credo... ma non sono sicura
Grazie mille!
Ciao
Beatrice Faedo
Italy
organisational "must-dos"
Explanation:
without seeing the list itself, this is my spontaneous suggestion

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2015-01-20 14:52:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

aut tunc, aut nunquam (sing to the tune of "O Sole Mio)

:)
Selected response from:

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:39
Grading comment
Thanks Phil!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4organisational "must-dos"
Tom in London
4 +2organisational options
philgoddard
4organizational obligation
Teresa Valaer
3organisational dos and don'ts
Linda Thody


  

Answers


2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
organisational "must-dos"


Explanation:
without seeing the list itself, this is my spontaneous suggestion

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2015-01-20 14:52:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

aut tunc, aut nunquam (sing to the tune of "O Sole Mio)

:)

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 72
Grading comment
Thanks Phil!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, that's it! Thanks Tom, I couldn't remember it! ;-) I like aut tunc, aut numquam :-) Ciao!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Silvia Currò
17 mins

neutral  philgoddard: This not what it means as far as I can see, though if you have references...
45 mins

agree  Pompeo Lattanzi: The original (Latin) meaning was simply "alternative choices". In modern Italian it is mostly used to describe a situation of forced choice, one of the alternatives being too unpleasant to contemplate. Tom's suggestion seems to reflect that.
1 hr
  -> Thank you Pompeo. Although technically "Aut Aut" does refer to two alternatives, in Italian it has commonly come to mean an imperative: something that if not done, would result in a deleterious situation.

agree  francesca mini
1 hr

agree  tradu-grace
2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
organisational options


Explanation:
It means "either...or...", so ""either/ors" would be one possible translation. You could also say alternatives.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-01-20 17:17:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pompeo says it means that one of the alternatives is too unpleasant to contemplate. I know he's a native speaker, but that's not what Wikipedia says:

La locuzione latina àut àut, che deriva da un raddoppiamento della congiunzione latina aut, è traducibile in italiano come un "o" disgiuntivo con il significato di "o questo o quello". Una scelta in cui un termine esclude l'altro (ad esempio: aut Caesar, aut nihil "o imperatore o niente"), a differenza di vel...vel, che oppone due termini non necessariamente in contrapposizione tra loro.

Nell'uso comune della lingua italiana però l'espressione "aut aut" è utilizzata anche per definire una scelta biunivoca direzionata "o di qua o di là", e in generale per alludere all'obbligo di esprimere una scelta imposta a chi esita a prendere una posizione.

Come nell'espressione tertium non datur, sta a significare che una terza soluzione non esiste rispetto a una situazione che ne contempla soltanto due.

Data la diffusione dell'espressione, usata anche da molte persone che ignorano il latino, capita con una certa frequenza di vederla scritta come out out (o out-out), quasi che si trattasse di parole inglesi e non latine (a volte peraltro con voluta ambiguità, come nel caso di diversi locali che portano questo nome)[1]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-01-20 17:20:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My original suggestion of "options" is probably too open ended. Since there are only two options in each case, a better translation would be "either/or options" or "either/or alternatives".


    Reference: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aut
philgoddard
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 55
Notes to answerer
Asker: It is actually in the sense of the tertium non datur. There are couple of options, not many. Maybe your either/or options is the best solution. Thanks!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Simo Blom
21 hrs

agree  Juliet Halewood
22 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
organisational dos and don'ts


Explanation:
I think in English it would most likely be something like "dos and don'ts"


Linda Thody
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:39
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
organizational obligation


Explanation:
The actual definition of "aut aut" is "ultimatum". perhaps here it sounds too threatening.


Example sentence(s):
  • Finally, employees must often depend on multiple organizational agents to fulfill organizational obligations.

    https://books.google.it/books?id=qTqUpjjp4uYC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=%22organizational+obligations%22&source=bl&ots=P-Z4BhmPMJ&sig=h9HxwQwXL9
Teresa Valaer
Italy
Local time: 22:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search