il fatto non sussiste

English translation: the fact does not exist

12:31 Oct 20, 2013
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / court hearing
Italian term or phrase: il fatto non sussiste
it's in the minutes of a court hearing: target Language is US English (NOT British) "la difesa chiede sentenza di non luogo a procedere perché il fatto non sussiste"
defense counsel files a motion to dismiss because ...
comogirl
Italy
Local time: 21:20
English translation:the fact does not exist
Explanation:


http://books.google.it/books?id=iVZD9E-R8uQC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA...

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Note added at 14 mins (2013-10-20 12:45:22 GMT)
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You can add "alleged" if you wish, but I would stick to a literal translation since this is a specific type of acquittal verdict precisely provided for by the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure.

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Note added at 28 mins (2013-10-20 12:59:27 GMT)
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Note that the reference is to the material fact, and not to the offence as such. The two concepts are to remain distinct and the word "fact" should be used instead of "offence".

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Note added at 32 mins (2013-10-20 13:04:08 GMT)
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A final, friendly suggestion (yes, I'm touchy): this time, please do not pick the wrong answer... :-)

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Note added at 45 mins (2013-10-20 13:17:08 GMT)
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Any generic answer such as "there is no case to answer" would not be able to translate the specific formulation chosen by the Court ("perché il fatto non sussiste", AS OPPOSED TO "perché l'imputato non ha commesso il fatto", "perché il fatto non è previsto dalla legge come reato", and the other acquittal verdicts provided for by Article 530 C.P.P., each of which has a precise meaning thus requiring a specific translation (and not the generic "no case to answer")).

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Note added at 16 hrs (2013-10-21 05:12:47 GMT)
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Since the (very useful) discussion has been hidden by an overzealous moderator ("Reason: please use answer box or reference box") I report here the bits I remember of my previous contributions to that discussion:

I quote from the same website cited by Tom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus

"Although lawyers find the expression ACTUS REUS convenient, it is misleading in one respect. It means not just the criminal act but all the external elements of an offence. Ordinarily, there is a criminal act, which is what makes the term actus reus generally acceptable. But there are crimes without an ACT, and therefore without an ACTUS REUS in the obvious meaning of that term. The expression “conduct” is more satisfactory, because wider; it covers not only an act but an OMISSION..."

Since the Latin expression "Actus reus" etymologically does not cover omissions, I believe that the word "Fact", being wider and more general in scope that "Actus reus", is more suitable to translate "fatto" in this instance.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2013-10-21 11:51:03 GMT)
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...because the (alleged) fact does not exist (or "did not take place").
Selected response from:

Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
Italy
Local time: 21:20
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1the fact does not exist
Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
5no offence was committed
fbbest
3 +2(AE) there is no actus reus
Adrian MM. (X)
4AE: the elements of an offense / BE: the statement of facts are / is is not existent
Ellen Kraus


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
AE: the elements of an offense / BE: the statement of facts are / is is not existent


Explanation:
I ´d say
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_assolutoria‎
Assoluzione perché il fatto non sussiste;; Assoluzione perché l'imputato non ha commesso il fatto;; Assoluzione perché il fatto non costituisce reato;; Assoluzione

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 21:20
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 147

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo: In my very humble opinion, the statement of facts does exist since the fact(s) has/have been alleged by the prosecution. On the other hand, there is just an element of the alleged offence that does not exist (for the acquitting Court): the material fact.
29 mins
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
(AE) there is no actus reus


Explanation:
Just in case there is a problem with 'no case to answer'.

Actus reus, as Sebastiano will confirm, is a Latin expression meaning the 'guilty act' and contrasts with 'mens rea' = the guilty mind.

Latin is a living language in Vatican City and the language of administration in Vietnam.


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus
Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 21:20
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 769

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: "Asked the court to rule that there was no case to answer because there was no actus reus," perhaps.
9 mins
  -> Thank you and a good choice.

neutral  Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo: There is in fact a problem with "no case to answer". I love legal Latin, and "actus reus" is almost as suitable as "fact", in this instance. (See under my answer, where I quote my remark from the same link you cited). ;-)
18 mins
  -> Indeed. My own ref. quotes actus reus in the US as denoting a (course of) conduct or omission.

agree  Thomas Roberts: There is no case to answer is correct
8 days
  -> Thx for your confirmation but, alas, the '(f)act no longer exists'.
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21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
no offence was committed


Explanation:
Idiom: no difference between US, UK or Canadian..

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Note added at 21 hrs (2013-10-21 10:16:12 GMT)
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see Zanichelli 'sussistere'

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Note added at 21 hrs (2013-10-21 10:27:29 GMT)
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http://ita.proz.com/kudoz/italian_to_english/law_general/514...

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-10-21 10:40:21 GMT)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Criminal_Procedure#Noti...

VERDICTS - Italia Code of Criminal Procedure
The following are the only verdicts that a Judge can pass at the end of a trial in Italy

-Perché il fatto non sussiste
-Because the action the defendant was alleged to have committed
never took place

-Perché l'imputato non lo ha commesso
- Because the defendant did not commit the action he was alleged to have committed, but that action did take place

-Perché il fatto non costituisce reato
-Because the action committed by the defendant is not considered a crime, for he was excused (e.g. self defense)

-Perché il fatto non è previsto dalla Legge come reato
-Because law no longer considers the action committed by the defendant to be a crime

-Perché l'imputato non è punibile
- Because the defendant is not liable for his crime, because he was legally insane at the time



fbbest
Italy
Local time: 21:20
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 75

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo: You're right:the counsel is obviously implying that no offence was committed,but in the phrase to be translated (s)he is explaining the specific reason why no offence was committed (i.e. because the alleged fact does not exist). Other reasons are possible
35 mins
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the fact does not exist


Explanation:


http://books.google.it/books?id=iVZD9E-R8uQC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2013-10-20 12:45:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You can add "alleged" if you wish, but I would stick to a literal translation since this is a specific type of acquittal verdict precisely provided for by the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2013-10-20 12:59:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note that the reference is to the material fact, and not to the offence as such. The two concepts are to remain distinct and the word "fact" should be used instead of "offence".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2013-10-20 13:04:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A final, friendly suggestion (yes, I'm touchy): this time, please do not pick the wrong answer... :-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2013-10-20 13:17:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Any generic answer such as "there is no case to answer" would not be able to translate the specific formulation chosen by the Court ("perché il fatto non sussiste", AS OPPOSED TO "perché l'imputato non ha commesso il fatto", "perché il fatto non è previsto dalla legge come reato", and the other acquittal verdicts provided for by Article 530 C.P.P., each of which has a precise meaning thus requiring a specific translation (and not the generic "no case to answer")).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2013-10-21 05:12:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Since the (very useful) discussion has been hidden by an overzealous moderator ("Reason: please use answer box or reference box") I report here the bits I remember of my previous contributions to that discussion:

I quote from the same website cited by Tom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus

"Although lawyers find the expression ACTUS REUS convenient, it is misleading in one respect. It means not just the criminal act but all the external elements of an offence. Ordinarily, there is a criminal act, which is what makes the term actus reus generally acceptable. But there are crimes without an ACT, and therefore without an ACTUS REUS in the obvious meaning of that term. The expression “conduct” is more satisfactory, because wider; it covers not only an act but an OMISSION..."

Since the Latin expression "Actus reus" etymologically does not cover omissions, I believe that the word "Fact", being wider and more general in scope that "Actus reus", is more suitable to translate "fatto" in this instance.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2013-10-21 11:51:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...because the (alleged) fact does not exist (or "did not take place").

Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
Italy
Local time: 21:20
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 90

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  missdutch: extremely accurate, well done!
2 hrs
  -> Thank you very much!

agree  mlreid: I echo - very well done. I remember being stymied by that in a court of law many many years ago when I was put on the spot having to pinch hit for an interpretor. Very good explanation!
19 hrs
  -> Of course, in your place (without a previous internet research) I would have been much more than simply stymied. I would probably have translated it literally, getting it right without knowing it... :-)

disagree  Thomas Roberts: This is a meaningless literal translation.
9 days
  -> The source text utilizes the common term "fatto" and not the specialist/legal term "condotta", so the former, not the latter must be translated.According to the Oxford Dictionary, "fact" is "something that is known to have happened". A perfect translation
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