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part between asterisks

English translation: This is how I interpret it:

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:part between asterisks
English translation:This is how I interpret it:
Entered by: William Stein
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00:59 Dec 7, 2003
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary / Dante's Inferno
Italian term or phrase: part between asterisks
Could somebody please explain the logic and grammar of the part between asterisks? Can "di" really mean "despite" here?

Temp'era dal principio del matino,
e 'l sol montava 'n sù con quelle stelle
ch'eran con lui quando l'amor divino

mose di prima quelle cose belle;
***si ch'a bene sperar m'era cagione
di quella fiera a la gaette pelle

l'ora del tempo e la dolce stagione;***

The Hollander translation says:

so that, despite that beast with gaudy fur,
I still could hope for good, encouraged

by the hour of the day and the sweet season.
William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 18:58
This is how I interpret it:
Explanation:
So that they [the skin of the beast, the time and the season] were reason for me to (have good) hope...

Below is the Longfellow translation

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Note added at 2003-12-07 02:45:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I tried to add this note earlier, but apparently i didn\'t hit the Add button. Here it is again:

From my annotated copy of the Inferno (by Natalino Sapegno):

Line 38 Il sole sorgeva nel segno dell\'Ariete. Era opinione comune che al momento della creazione... il sole occupasse appunto quel segno dell Zodiaco., in cui esso si trova all\'inizio della primavera.

Line 41: L\'ora mattutina e la stagione primaverile, infondendomi serenitá e fiducia, m\'erano cagione a sperar bene riguardo al pericolo reppresentato da quella fiera del pelo maculato. \"Alla\" per \"dalla... \"gaetta\" é provenzialismo [che] i commentatori antichi intendono nel senso de \"leggiadretta, \"leggiadra a vedersi\", piacevole per la screziatura del pelo.

So, then, the season and time of day give him reason to hope.
Selected response from:

David Russi
United States
Local time: 17:58
Grading comment
Thanks everybody, you were all very helpful. Given the fact that Aries is the sign of naive optimism and ego, I think it might mean that at first Dante had high hopes of fame (the beast with the gaudy fur representing pride and vanity). That would explain why he started to write the Commedia, but as he matured he became indifferent to fame and wrote for his own salvation.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5vs
Antonio Volpe Pasini
5vs
Antonio Volpe Pasini
4not despiteagtranslat
4despite?Sergio Santoro
4 -1This is how I interpret it:
David Russi


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
despite?


Explanation:
I don't get any "despite" sense anywhere.
I don't know who it depends on, but when archaic Italian is concerned, a super accurate transciption is essential. Did you copy that as is or u missed some doubles and mismatched some articles with their nouns?
Meanwhile I'll fish out my Divina Commedia...

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Note added at 2003-12-07 01:06:57 (GMT)
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also, in these cases it would help a lot if u could submit the Canto, chapter and stanza, too

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Note added at 2003-12-07 02:33:30 (GMT)
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OK This is straight out of my high school Inferno (and translated).

\"so that the time of the day (l\'ora del tempo - dawn) and the time of the year (dolce stagione - spring equinox) were reason for me not to fear (ben sperare di) that beast by the spotted coat\"

Sergio Santoro
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 16
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This is how I interpret it:


Explanation:
So that they [the skin of the beast, the time and the season] were reason for me to (have good) hope...

Below is the Longfellow translation

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-07 02:45:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I tried to add this note earlier, but apparently i didn\'t hit the Add button. Here it is again:

From my annotated copy of the Inferno (by Natalino Sapegno):

Line 38 Il sole sorgeva nel segno dell\'Ariete. Era opinione comune che al momento della creazione... il sole occupasse appunto quel segno dell Zodiaco., in cui esso si trova all\'inizio della primavera.

Line 41: L\'ora mattutina e la stagione primaverile, infondendomi serenitá e fiducia, m\'erano cagione a sperar bene riguardo al pericolo reppresentato da quella fiera del pelo maculato. \"Alla\" per \"dalla... \"gaetta\" é provenzialismo [che] i commentatori antichi intendono nel senso de \"leggiadretta, \"leggiadra a vedersi\", piacevole per la screziatura del pelo.

So, then, the season and time of day give him reason to hope.


    Reference: http://www.stjohnsprep.org/teachers/mm_english/dante/inferno...
David Russi
United States
Local time: 17:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1919
Grading comment
Thanks everybody, you were all very helpful. Given the fact that Aries is the sign of naive optimism and ego, I think it might mean that at first Dante had high hopes of fame (the beast with the gaudy fur representing pride and vanity). That would explain why he started to write the Commedia, but as he matured he became indifferent to fame and wrote for his own salvation.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sergio Santoro: the beast can't be a cause of good hope, since earlier Dante is describing how the sight of that beast who wasn't moving out of the way made him think of going back
1 hr
  -> Somehow, the note I added did not come through... I will add it again, but essentially the time of day and the season give him hope.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
not despite


Explanation:
I see the question was practically solved while I was writing.
Never mind. I share other posters’ opinion that Dante’s hopes for a good outcome regarding the beast with the gaudy fur are encouraged by the hour of the day and the sweet season. The preposition "di" would be "from", referring to what he expects from the beast.

A closer rendering would have been something like:
"so, that of that beast with gaudy fur
my hopes for good were raised, encouraged
by the hour of the day and the sweet season;
but not so that I was not struck by fear
by the sudden appearance of a lion."

Interestingly, the Hollander translation conveys just the opposite of the Spanish one by J.E. Sanguinetti, in whose translation it's not despite, but because of the gaudy fur that Dante could hope for good. Indeed, both appear to have got into trouble in this stanza, which you may like to check:

Era la hora del principiar de la mañana,
y el Sol allá arriba subía con aquellas estrellas
39 que junto a él estaban, cuando el amor divino
movió por vez primera aquellas cosas bellas;
bien que un buen presagio me auguraban
42 de aquella fiera la abigarrada piel,
la ocasión del momento, y la dulce estación:
pero no tanto, que de pavor no me llenara
45 la vista de un león que apareció.

Ciao


agtranslat
Netherlands
Local time: 01:58
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 32
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
vs


Explanation:
It was dawn and the sun was rising in the Aries constellation, with which it was in conjuction when God created the stars and the planets, setting them in motion; for this reason, the early hour of the mornig and the sweet season (spring - whne the sun is in Aries), where for me reason of hope that I could defeat that beast with the spotted coat (the "lonza") but not enough so that I would not be terrified from the appearance of a Lion...

Antonio Volpe Pasini
Local time: 19:58
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 36
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
vs


Explanation:
It was dawn and the sun was rising in the Aries constellation, with which it was in conjuction when God created the stars and the planets, setting them in motion; for this reason, the early hour of the mornig and the sweet season (spring - whne the sun is in Aries), where for me reason of hope that I could defeat that beast with the spotted coat (the "lonza") but not enough so that I would not be terrified from the appearance of a Lion...

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Note added at 2003-12-07 08:40:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I hit the send button twice
ciao

Antonio Volpe Pasini
Local time: 19:58
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 36
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