KudoZ home » Italian to English » Finance (general)

inscientia decoctionis

English translation: ignorance of insolvency

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:inscientia decoctionis
English translation:ignorance of insolvency
Entered by: Margaret Scott
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

19:23 Jan 18, 2008
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Finance (general)
Italian term or phrase: inscientia decoctionis
this, obviously, is a phrase in Latin used in Italian Law. I can't find a translation for in any dictionary or on the Net.
Margaret Scott
United States
Local time: 14:24
ignorance of insolvency
Explanation:
have it from an italian lawyer friend who says: nel reato di isolvenza fraudolenta
uno degli elementi costitutivi del reato è la coscienza dello stato di insolvenza
oppure può essere usato per l'esercizio dell'azione revocatoria".

NSW court of appeal: "That is why it is possible to envisage a circumstance in which a person may receive payment honestly and in that sense in good faith. Yet on an objective consideration, that person may have had reasonable grounds for suspecting insolvency. Despite good faith, the defence fails. But the requirement of good faith and the subjective test coalesce where the person has both acted in good faith in ignorance of insolvency and had no reasonable grounds for suspecting it".
cclsr.law.unimelb.edu.au/judgments/ worddocs/nsw/2004/march/2004NSWCA105.rtf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-18 20:36:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well, that NSW finding seems to be speaking precisely of that (as does my italian lawyer friend).
Selected response from:

Paul O'Brien
Italy
Local time: 20:24
Grading comment
Thanks. I don't know how I would ever have found this answer on my own!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
3 +1ignorance of insolvency
Paul O'Brien
3ignorance of the fact of insolvency
James (Jim) Davis
3ignorance of the parlous situation
simon tanner


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ignorance of the parlous situation


Explanation:
Literally, this means 'ignorance of the decoction/mixture'. Figuratively speaking, and in this sense, presumably, ignorance of the (parlous) situation (of a company's finances).

These references may halp clarify:

http://www.tidona.com/pubblicazioni/aprile01_5.htm
In caso di inversione dell'onere probatorio, il convenuto in revocatoria dovrà viceversa dimostrare ***"l'inscientia decoctionis"***, ossia la impossibilità di riconoscere con mezzi ordinari lo stato di insolvenza del soggetto poi fallito , non avendo riguardo però al suo stato psicologico bensì a circostanze oggettive

http://www.iussit.it/aArtcOq/fallQrevB.htm
La Cassazione, però, di fronte ad un criterio così generico che parla di presunzioni e conoscibilità, tanto da sembrare che inverta l’onere della prova che, tuttavia, rimane a carico del curatore fallimentare, ha sentito l’esigenza di chiarire che la conoscenza dello stato di insolvenza dell’imprenditore poi fallito da parte del creditore (terzo contraente) deve essere effettiva e non potenziale”. Al massimo il terzo contraente, di fronte alle presunzioni, deve provare la ***inscientia decoctionis***, cioè la non conoscenza dello stato di dissesto dell’imprenditore suo contraente

simon tanner
Italy
Local time: 20:24
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 43

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Paul O'Brien: sorry simon, but i've changed my mind. parlous only means risky or dangerous. i think (though i can't be sure) that this is insolvency.
4 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ignorance of insolvency


Explanation:
have it from an italian lawyer friend who says: nel reato di isolvenza fraudolenta
uno degli elementi costitutivi del reato è la coscienza dello stato di insolvenza
oppure può essere usato per l'esercizio dell'azione revocatoria".

NSW court of appeal: "That is why it is possible to envisage a circumstance in which a person may receive payment honestly and in that sense in good faith. Yet on an objective consideration, that person may have had reasonable grounds for suspecting insolvency. Despite good faith, the defence fails. But the requirement of good faith and the subjective test coalesce where the person has both acted in good faith in ignorance of insolvency and had no reasonable grounds for suspecting it".
cclsr.law.unimelb.edu.au/judgments/ worddocs/nsw/2004/march/2004NSWCA105.rtf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-18 20:36:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well, that NSW finding seems to be speaking precisely of that (as does my italian lawyer friend).

Paul O'Brien
Italy
Local time: 20:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 172
Grading comment
Thanks. I don't know how I would ever have found this answer on my own!
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think I have the sense of it. It is used as part of an outline: Coerenza fra inscientia decoctionis e operato di XXX


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  simon tanner: No problem, Paul. Your version sounds good (more to the point, might well be right). I started from the Latin and worked from there, but can't say I have ever come across the legal concept before. Between us, one way or another, we've nailed it down!
15 mins
  -> you're a gentleman and a scholar. but yours might still be right in context.

agree  Grace Anderson: I have come across "scientia decoctionis" which is "knowledge of insolvency" (and it's in the kudoz glossary http://www.proz.com/kudoz/771833)
10 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ignorance of the fact of insolvency


Explanation:
"Ignorance of fact" is a standard legal term in English.

A well-known legal maxim runs: ignorantia juris non excusat ("ignorance of the law does not excuse") With this is sometimes coupled with another maxim: ignorantia facti excusat **ignorance of the fact **excuses ") .
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/I27_INV/IGNORANCE_Lat_ignorant...
If we then add "of insolvency" we narrow it to the meaning of inscientia decotionis in Italian banking law.

Obviously this *only* adds a little to the work already done by Paul and Simon.



    Reference: http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22ign...
James (Jim) Davis
Seychelles
Local time: 22:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4482
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search