鳥合の衆

English translation: rabble

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:鳥合の衆
English translation:rabble
Entered by: Dave REESE

10:46 May 9, 2005
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Idiomatic Phrases
Japanese term or phrase: 鳥合の衆
This appears to be a fairly common idiomatic phrase, but I'm not sure of the standard English translation. In the piece I am translating, it is said that George Washington used this term to describe the Continental Army when it was first formed from new recruits from all the colonies, presently serving militiamen, and foreign officers from France and Germany.

The entire sentence is: それでもワシントン自らが[鳥合の衆]と評したスタートであった。

I think it might be translated as "a flock of birds", but I can find no reference on Google to Washington using this phrase. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave REESE
Japan
Local time: 14:21
rabble
Explanation:
I believe it's a term to describe an undisciplined, unregulated crowd or army. So perhaps "rabble" or "undisciplined mob"?

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Note added at 20 mins (2005-05-09 11:07:03 GMT)
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glad that i could help!
Selected response from:

Gemma Collinge
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:21
Grading comment
I believe all the answers suggested are good, but since this is a direct quote, and I did find one reference to George Washington referring to the Massachussettes militia as a "rabble", I am selecting this answer. Thank you very much!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2rabble
Gemma Collinge
5unorganized mob
Nobuo Kawamura
4disorderly crowd
Kazuo SAWADA


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
鳥合の衆
rabble


Explanation:
I believe it's a term to describe an undisciplined, unregulated crowd or army. So perhaps "rabble" or "undisciplined mob"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2005-05-09 11:07:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

glad that i could help!

Gemma Collinge
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I believe all the answers suggested are good, but since this is a direct quote, and I did find one reference to George Washington referring to the Massachussettes militia as a "rabble", I am selecting this answer. Thank you very much!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Can Altinbay: Both current suggestions are good. I prefer this one - short and succinct.
3 hrs

agree  humbird
5 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
鳥合の衆
disorderly crowd


Explanation:
a direct tranlation is "sheep that have no shepherd."
also, "ragtag and bobtail."
"disorderly ceowd" is a good translation, I believe.
FYI, 烏合の衆のようにis"like a herd of cattle,"

Kazuo SAWADA
Local time: 19:21
Native speaker of: Japanese
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
unorganized mob


Explanation:
(for academic writing, I would prefer) unorganized mass

Nobuo Kawamura
Japan
Local time: 14:21
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 8
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