Masakatsu Agatu Katsuhayabi

English translation: True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:Masakatsu Agatu Katsuhayabi
English translation:True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!
Entered by: Monika Rozwarzewska

15:45 Oct 4, 2004
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / martial arts
Japanese term or phrase: Masakatsu Agatu Katsuhayabi
motto of Aikido
Monika Rozwarzewska
Poland
Local time: 23:33
True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!
Explanation:
To be honest, it makes no sense to me. It is my experience that a lot of meaningless terminology is used in martial arts.


masakatsu agatsu katsuhayabi, "true victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 20 mins (2004-10-04 20:06:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops. I pressed Enter instead of Shift, not a particularly bright move.

Nevertheless, my comment stands. A lot of so-called martial arts terminology has no meaning because the words, or the combination of words, is simply not Japanese but no more than the English version of Japlish.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 40 mins (2004-10-04 20:26:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is the Japanese way this slogan is written:
正勝吾勝勝速日


正=masa=correct/true
勝=katsu=victory

吾=a=I/self
勝=katsu=victory

勝=katsu=victory
速=haya=fast
日=hi=day

I don¥'t have time to go into details, but from my spacing, it should be clear how they arrive at the meaning. It should be clear that the ¥"meanings¥" (actually cultural equivalents rather than meanings or translations) are interpretations. There is no real way we can know that these even remotely represent the intentions of the Aikido founder.





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs 21 mins (2004-10-05 07:07:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your suspicions are well-founded. Japanese is a very different language and a very different culture. That means that translation as we see it in a European languages context is not really possible. Most translations from/into Japanese are not really translations at all but rather cross-cultural interpretations or ¥"cultural equivalents¥". That makes translating from/into Japanese a lot of fun, but also a very risky/shaky business, especially when translating creative language. In order to translate properly, it is always a good idea to have a thorough knowledge of the culture and the subjects the translations are about (in both languages), and this is probably nowhere more important than when translating from/into Japanese into/from a European language.

Misinterpretations are extremely common. Probably the simplest and best known example is that of Fuji-san. In many Western books one will find the explanation that the Japanese revere Mount Fuji and that adding the honorific ¥'san¥' to Fuji is an indication of that. However, if one knows how it is written, one understand that ¥'san¥' does not stand for ¥'Mr.¥' or something like that, but simply for ¥'mountain¥'. Therefore Fuji san means nothing more than Fuji mountain => Mount Fuji.

Translations from/into Japanese, even simple ones, should always be approached with healthy suspicions.

So, please continue. Your suspicions are a necessary step towards understanding Japanese.
Selected response from:

Bart B. Van Bockstaele
Canada
Local time: 17:33
Grading comment
thank you so much!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
2 +1True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!
Bart B. Van Bockstaele


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!


Explanation:
To be honest, it makes no sense to me. It is my experience that a lot of meaningless terminology is used in martial arts.


masakatsu agatsu katsuhayabi, "true victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 20 mins (2004-10-04 20:06:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops. I pressed Enter instead of Shift, not a particularly bright move.

Nevertheless, my comment stands. A lot of so-called martial arts terminology has no meaning because the words, or the combination of words, is simply not Japanese but no more than the English version of Japlish.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 40 mins (2004-10-04 20:26:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is the Japanese way this slogan is written:
正勝吾勝勝速日


正=masa=correct/true
勝=katsu=victory

吾=a=I/self
勝=katsu=victory

勝=katsu=victory
速=haya=fast
日=hi=day

I don¥'t have time to go into details, but from my spacing, it should be clear how they arrive at the meaning. It should be clear that the ¥"meanings¥" (actually cultural equivalents rather than meanings or translations) are interpretations. There is no real way we can know that these even remotely represent the intentions of the Aikido founder.





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs 21 mins (2004-10-05 07:07:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your suspicions are well-founded. Japanese is a very different language and a very different culture. That means that translation as we see it in a European languages context is not really possible. Most translations from/into Japanese are not really translations at all but rather cross-cultural interpretations or ¥"cultural equivalents¥". That makes translating from/into Japanese a lot of fun, but also a very risky/shaky business, especially when translating creative language. In order to translate properly, it is always a good idea to have a thorough knowledge of the culture and the subjects the translations are about (in both languages), and this is probably nowhere more important than when translating from/into Japanese into/from a European language.

Misinterpretations are extremely common. Probably the simplest and best known example is that of Fuji-san. In many Western books one will find the explanation that the Japanese revere Mount Fuji and that adding the honorific ¥'san¥' to Fuji is an indication of that. However, if one knows how it is written, one understand that ¥'san¥' does not stand for ¥'Mr.¥' or something like that, but simply for ¥'mountain¥'. Therefore Fuji san means nothing more than Fuji mountain => Mount Fuji.

Translations from/into Japanese, even simple ones, should always be approached with healthy suspicions.

So, please continue. Your suspicions are a necessary step towards understanding Japanese.



    Reference: http://www.aikido.pair.com/reflections.html
    Reference: http://www.traditionalfightingarts.org/aikido/
Bart B. Van Bockstaele
Canada
Local time: 17:33
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
thank you so much!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dave REESE: Good interpretation.
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Dave.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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