身の世界

English translation: true self

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:身の世界
English translation:true self
Entered by: Christopher W Gladden

09:00 Jan 7, 2015
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Religion / or Philosophy, or Psychology... anyway, Buddhism
Japanese term or phrase: 身の世界
I tentatively translated this as "the realm of the body" but it seems a bit strange to me here.

(思いを)手放したときには見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界がまったく違うんだっていうことがわかる。非連続なんだ、言語道断なんだということがわかる。

It's the 身I'm not sure best how to handle. They had spoken previously about the centrality of the body to zazen, and that seems to be what he's referring to. So maybe something like "world of the body" is okay... I look forward to hearing what you think.

Thanks so much.
Christopher W Gladden
United States
Local time: 15:25
true self
Explanation:
Hi:)

In the contemporary Japanese, 身 means "body", indeed, but I have came across texts where it is used as "self; oneself". In the past, it also had the meaning of "body-mind-spirit trinity". This is what this text is about, I guess, and I think the focus of the first sentence is on 見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界, i.e. 見聞覚知 is distinguished from 身の世界, which, in turn, is likened to 青空の世界. And "blue sky" is a metaphor for the true self, which appears when the "clouds" of thoughts, desires, etc. are done away . Also, I think we do not need to translate 世界 literally.
I therefore suggest the following translation:

When you let your thoughts (feelings, desires) go, you understand that the sensual world (or the world of six human faculties) is completely different from that of your true self. This is something that goes beyond words and logic (explanation).
Selected response from:

Kendriya .
Japan
Local time: 05:25
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1true self
Kendriya .
3the world of physical experience and the awareness of it
Marc Brunet
3corporeal world
David Patrick


  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
corporeal world


Explanation:
"Corporeal world" is the first thing that came to my mind.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2015-01-07 09:11:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"The realm of the body" could be an option.

David Patrick
Ireland
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the world of physical experience and the awareness of it


Explanation:
My background knowledge of buddhism is very thin, and there are two terms in your passages I would not risk translating without a good fix on what they actually refer to, but one thing seems clear at least: parsing [見聞覚知と身]の世界 this way makes it easier to arrive at the above offering.
But would be grateful for your rendering of 「青空」and 「言語道断」in that passage. Here is below my fumbling through it... Thank you for your corrections.

Example sentence(s):
  • Once you have parted with desire, the world of physical experience and the awareness of it, i.e. the world of [青空」 appears to you as completely different. You then realise that it is indeed 'dis-continuous', [言語道断='shockingly disconcerting
Marc Brunet
Australia
Native speaker of: French
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hello, and thanks for your thoughts. 青空、as Kendriya points out, refers to our true nature. In this monk's English talks he uses the literal "Clear Sky," so I do as well (in the context of the book that meaning is clear.) 言語道断 here isn't the coloquial phrase, but has the original Buddhist connotations of "cutting through language." In this case I translated it "beyond intellect." Thanks again!

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
true self


Explanation:
Hi:)

In the contemporary Japanese, 身 means "body", indeed, but I have came across texts where it is used as "self; oneself". In the past, it also had the meaning of "body-mind-spirit trinity". This is what this text is about, I guess, and I think the focus of the first sentence is on 見聞覚知と身の世界つまり青空の世界, i.e. 見聞覚知 is distinguished from 身の世界, which, in turn, is likened to 青空の世界. And "blue sky" is a metaphor for the true self, which appears when the "clouds" of thoughts, desires, etc. are done away . Also, I think we do not need to translate 世界 literally.
I therefore suggest the following translation:

When you let your thoughts (feelings, desires) go, you understand that the sensual world (or the world of six human faculties) is completely different from that of your true self. This is something that goes beyond words and logic (explanation).

Kendriya .
Japan
Local time: 05:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in BulgarianBulgarian
PRO pts in category: 11
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Kendriya, and thanks for another thoughtful answer. That 身の世界 is in part referring to a Dogen quote from earlier in the text: "禅あれば道を得ることは正しく身を以て得るなり。” Looking at the surrounding verses in it's source, Shobogenzo-zuimonki, and comparing those with an "official" Soto English translation, turns out that 身 at first refers to the flesh alone. But by the time it gets to where we are, suddenly the same 身 means "body and mind." Yikes! So this is just a long way around to say I agree with mmb42. Great. Thanks!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marc Brunet: Great! You nailed it! but see Discussion: not enough room here. PS: No. My intended marginal caveat was wrong. Agree with you all the way. :-)
10 hrs
  -> Thanks a lot for your comment and positive response!:)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search