English translation: It opened 400 years ago, but according to folklore, it has been around for more than 1000 years

07:11 Feb 22, 2016
Japanese to English translations [Non-PRO]
Tourism & Travel
Japanese term or phrase: 隠し湯(など)

I actually don't have a problem with 隠し湯...but I need some input on these few sentences. 開湯400年、okay, so it was "discovered" 400 years ago. But then suddenly two sentences later it's more than 1000 years old. Am I missing something or are the folks writing this just confused? I've got all the rest, it's just that one point that has me scratching my head.

This is for an onsen's website.

開湯400年。武田信玄の隠し湯として古より愛されている親湯温泉。蓼科山のふもと、親湯を象徴する一枚の大巌(おおいわ:観音様)からこんこんと湧く湯。 武田信玄が、戦で傷ついた兵士を癒したという隠し湯は1000年以上も昔、中世よりさまざまな伝承で語り継がれてきました。


Christopher W Gladden
United States
Local time: 08:34
English translation:It opened 400 years ago, but according to folklore, it has been around for more than 1000 years
There is a gap between when the hot spring actually opened and what local folklore says it opened.

Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-22 10:13:40 GMT)

I mean it was "discovered".
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Port City
New Zealand
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4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided
3 +1It opened 400 years ago, but according to folklore, it has been around for more than 1000 years
Port City
3Began operation 400 years ago.
Carl Freire
3year 400
Andrea Furlan (X)
1known/loved for 400 years
Erzsébet Czopyk

Discussion entries: 1



21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
year 400

could it be it does not mean "discovered 400 years ago", but rather "discovered in the year 400"? that would explain the second part of the sentence..

not sure though..

Andrea Furlan (X)
Local time: 14:34
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Began operation 400 years ago.

The target term I provided is just to give you an idea of the direction of my thinking on how to interpret your conundrum. It seems to me this is more a matter of someone actually set up shop here as whatever the early modern equivalent of a hot springs resort would have been 400 years ago, while the fact that hot water bubbles up from under the ground and is nice to bathe in had been known for a millennium or more.

Carl Freire
Local time: 22:34
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
known/loved for 400 years

First of all, this is not my pair at all but last year I was lucky to translate a tourist guide so I am willing to help - please consider my search as a guess - I list some facts I have found and my proposal is a guess as understood the text just in general (via machine translation)

Futamata Castle Ruins (二俣城跡, ''Futamata-jouseki''), Futamata-cho Futamata - Tenryu-ku (from the northern ''Akaden'' terminus at Nishikajima, take the Tenryu-Hamanako line one stop north to Futamata Honmachi, walk 200m north to the main street, head left for about 300m and look for the sign). Many battles were fought over this castle in the mid-sixteenth century between Ieyasu Tokugawa and Shingen Takeda. In 1579, Tokugawa's wife was executed here and his son committed seppuku here as well. The castle was abandoned after 1600, and today nothing but the walls remain, surrounded by a beautiful park. ++http://wikitravel.org/en/Hamamatsu

(logically, if these battles in a mid-sixteenth century ...)

Hotel Ambient Tateshina
Hotel Ambient Tateshina_room_pic Roughly in the middle of Nagano prefecture, this tranquil highland resort is situated at an elevation of 1530m. Located at the foot of Mount Tateshina, one of Japan's '100 famous mountains', and next to Lake Megami, which has a circumference of 1.8km.

Tateshina Grand Hotel Takinoyu is a hot spring resort surrounded by natural mountain streams.

Shirahone Onsen that it is said that it has already gushed out in the Kamakura era, and the history of several hundred years already flows through. It is said that military commander, Shingen Takeda of Sengoku treated soldier and miner of mine of Norikuradake who got injured by war in this bath. Shirahone Onsen "bath of bubble" which nestles quietly when we go to Kamikochi by mountain path from Matsumoto-shi.

Hamamatsu travel guide - Wikitravel
The first 400m of the 1000m limestone cavern are open to the public. ... Exhibits include locally-found pre-historic fossils, ancient pottery, old maps, and ... giving the visitor an idea of what life was like here three to four thousand years ago. ..... This ferry runs between Kanzanji Hot Spring and Mikkabi-cho, giving some nice ...

Bathing on Tatami!? A Relaxing Time Only Available at ...
A Relaxing Time Only Available at Tateshina Onsen Hotel Shinyu's Tatami Room Bath ...

You can definitely feel the hospitality at this Japanese-style resort.
The steaming springs in the middle of the room are called "Shingen's Hidden Spring," after the 16th century Japanese warlord Takeda Shingen. The springs are a type of simple spring (weakly acidic, hypotonic, low temperature spring).
It is famous that Takeda Shingen chose a Nagano prefecture hot spring as his "hidden spring," a hot spring to be used exclusively by him.
They say the hot spring of "Tateshina Onsen Hotel Shinyu" healed the wounds of wounded soldiers, and soothes cuts and scrapes on your skin. Some people today even say it helped with their eczema.
For the ladies, of course, it helps to keep the skin beautiful.

Shinyu Onsen – the onsen loved for 400 years.
Other than the tatami room baths, you can also try their outdoor bath where you can enjoy the forest and the sound of the river flowing before it, or one of their private outdoor baths filled with the soothing aroma of Japanese cypresses.

Note added at 1 hr (2016-02-22 08:33:17 GMT)

About Takeda Shingen (maybe it helps to orientate in time)
The chief historical interest of K5fu centres in its mediaeval hero, Takeda Shingen, who was one of the fiercest feudal chieftains of the lawless times that preceded the establishment of the Tokugawa dynasty of Shoguns, Born in 1521 as the eldest son of his father, lord of Koshti, it was his fate to be unjustly passed over by that father in favour of his second brother ; and he was obliged to feign stupidity as a boy, in order to preserve his life in safety. When, however, both youths reached man's estate, Takeda Shingen's superiority in skill and courage gained all the warriors of the clan over to his side, and he succeeded his father without demur. His whole time was spent in waging war against the barons of the neighbouring provinces of central and eastern Japan, especially against Uesugi Kenshin, lord of Shinshfl. In middle life he became converted to the doctrines of the Tendai sect of Buddhists, built a temple to the god Bishamon, did public X)enance, abj^ed the eating of fish and all intercourse with women, and went so far as to have himself decorated with the
title of archbishop,— for what ecclesiaatical authorities were going to refuse anything to a zealot who disposed of so many
soldiers ? He did not, however, renounce his grand passion, war, but kept on fighting till the end, his latter years being much disturbed by the consciousness of the growing power of leyasu, and being divided between quarrels and reconciliations with that great captain.
When mortally wounded in 1573, he left orders with his successor to hold no funeral service in his honour, but to keep his death a profound secret for three years, and then to sink his body privately in Lake Suwa, enclosed in a stone coffin.
This was in order to prevent his numerous foes from taking heail) at the news of his decease. His last will and testament was only partially obeyed; for though his death was kept secret as long as possible, the body was not sunk in the lake, but buried at the temple of
Eirinji at Matsuzato, a few miles from Kofu. The place still exists, the temple garden being a tasteful specimen of rockwork on a large scale. Brave but superstitious, Takeda Shingen was also an adept at governing men. His people liked and respected him, as was shown by the fact that none ever rebelled against him, evon in that turbulent age when every man's hand was against every man.

Full text of "A handbook for travellers in Japan" - Internet ...

Erzsébet Czopyk
Local time: 14:34
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
It opened 400 years ago, but according to folklore, it has been around for more than 1000 years

There is a gap between when the hot spring actually opened and what local folklore says it opened.

Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-22 10:13:40 GMT)

I mean it was "discovered".

Port City
New Zealand
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Takako Kimura
12 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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