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生ハム

English translation: cured ham

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19:20 Jul 9, 2002
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Food & Drink / Food
Japanese term or phrase: 生ハム
It is not "raw ham" as previously discussed on this website.
qytabit
Local time: 21:51
English translation:cured ham
Explanation:
生ハム= cured ham

There are two ways of curing pork;
1) Apply plenty of salt on uncooked pork and naturally hang-dry it over time. Italian prosciutto is a good example of this. It's really salty.

2) Smoke pork. One of the sites below says this company uses low-temperature smoke for a long period of time to cure the meat. It's not as salty as 1).

Now, the ham is not raw meat like sashimi. It's cured and still considered UNCOOKED.

By the way, my Italian cookbook says that in Italy, prosciutto means any kind of ham, cooked or uncooked. What the Japanese and Americans call prosciutto is just one kind of ham, cured and uncooked. I guess it's just like calling cantuccio "biscotti" in America when biscotti means just biscuit in Italy.

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Note added at 2002-07-10 11:14:01 (GMT)
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A site to show that what you call 生ハム in Japan is NOT at all cooked beforehand. http://page.freett.com/kaigai/namahamu.htm
Selected response from:

mkj
United States
Local time: 05:51
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2cured hammkj
5 +1dry-cured spiced ham
Maynard Hogg
4 +1(dry) cured, aged and smoked ham
LEXICON KK
5Fresh hamYMW
3crude ham
Minoru Kuwahara


  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Fresh ham


Explanation:
生ハム is labeled as fresh ham in the gorcery store in Dayton, Ohio where I shop all the time.

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Note added at 2002-07-09 22:09:52 (GMT)
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Sorry, I made a mistake. Reference should be http://fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/ham.htm


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Note added at 2002-07-09 23:00:36 (GMT)
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According to Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS), U.S. Dept. of
Agriculture, ¥"Ham may be fresh, cured, or cured-and-smoked. The usual color
for cured ham is deep rose or pink; fresh ham (which is not cured) has the
pale pink or beige color of a fresh port roast; country hams and prosciutto
(which are dry cured) range from pink to mahogany color.¥" Also, ¥"Fresh Ham -
the uncured leg of port. Since the meat is not cured or smoked, it has the
flavor of a fresh port loin roast or pork chops. Its raw color is pinkish
red and after cooking, grayish white.¥"


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Note added at 2002-07-09 23:02:49 (GMT)
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Sorry again. It should be pork not port.


    Reference: http://fsis.usda.gov/OH/pubs/ham.htm
YMW

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Maynard Hogg: Fresh ham is raw meat, not ハム. See comment below.
34 mins

agree  Katsuhiko KAKUNO, Ph.D.: Same idea with Maynard Hogg
9 hrs

neutral  LEXICON KK: The Japanese interpret 生ハム to be cured (塩漬けされたもの) fresh ham is NOT CURED. 生ハム has a different interpretation in Jap & Eng... so you're right and wrong
12 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
dry-cured spiced ham


Explanation:
is the Webster definition for prosciutto, the Italian entry in the 生ハム sweepstakes. I can't look up the Spanish version because I don't know its name.

大辞林「燻煙したあと水煮しないハム」

"Raw ham" is a non-starter because it's an oxymoron. English ham (as opposed to Japanese まがい物ハム) may start out as raw pork, venison, etc., but it is then salted, smoked, etc. so that it lasts.

生ビール is not raw, but unpasteurized.

生チョコ according to the industry definition contains a minimum percentage of 生クリーム.

BTW, the ProZ search function finds no prior discusstion of 生ハム.

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Note added at 2002-07-09 21:32:24 (GMT)
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http://www.ham.co.jp/un1.htm#生ハム

生ハムは高濃度の塩漬けを長期間行って作り上げます。熱処理をしていないため、ネットリとした独特の食感があります。使用する部位は骨付き豚のもも肉を丸ごと生ハムにした物から、一部を使った物、肩ロースやバラ肉を使った物、さらには鹿や子羊の肉を使用した物まであります。 また、製法も国によってくん煙(18〜22℃の低温)をかけたものから乾燥だけで作り上げる物と様々な種類があります。

高濃度の塩漬け (heavily pickled) sure knocks out any ¥"rawness.¥"

熱処理をしていない (unpasteurized) aligns 生ハム with 生ビール.

I¥'m not sure whether 燻煙 (low-temperature smoking) qualifies as 熱処理.

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Note added at 2002-07-09 21:37:03 (GMT)
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I too have seen ¥"fresh ham¥" in North American grocery stores, but I fail to see how something salted and smoked can be ¥"fresh.¥"

It would appear that Japan does not have a monopoly on false labeling. Just a commanding lead.

BTW, YMW¥'s USDA link is dead.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-09 21:44:52 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Tsk, tsk, Maynard! With a name like Hogg, you should know better!

A ¥"fresh ham¥" is RAW, uncured meat--the thigh of an animal (archetypically a hog).

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/458-223/fig3a.html

How to Identify a Quality Fresh Ham

http://bbq.about.com/library/weekly/aa112898.htm

All hams start out as a roast from the hind leg of a hog. This is called a fresh ham. Before it is prepared it is no different than any other pork roast. How it gets to be a ham is a complicated story.

Hams are prepared in several different ways. They can be aged, cured, smoked or cooked. The ham you get at the store is generally wet or brined cured. This process involves injecting the ham with a combination of salt, sugar, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, sodium erythorbate, sodium phosphate, potassium chloride, water and flavorings. The ham is then cooked to a temperature of 150oF. The combination of the chemical brine and the cooking will kill off bacteria and make a ham.

Now aging is a different process and does not necessarily require a brine of smoke....

Maynard Hogg
Japan
Local time: 21:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Shinya Ono: Thank you for sharing so much.
1 hr
  -> Thanks for the opportunity. That issue had been on the back burner for far too long.
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
crude ham


Explanation:
I'm not going into any discussion, just presenting another possibility of a shortened form of example. I should regard it as a neutral answer myself as I really do not get the clear image of what kind of "生ハム" is referred here.

I checked into the web to find that there are several kinds of hams called Prosciutto Crudo. And each ham has its naming based on its location of production such as Prosciutto Crudo "di Parma" or Prosciutto Crudo "di San Daniele". When translated into Japanese, they are clarified of its production origin by eaily being phrased like "パルマ産生ハム", etc. While if it seems that when Prosciutto Crudo is just appeared, it's not specified of its production origin and can be just called "生ハム". This is just the result of investigation. Also "Prosciutto" is particularly from Italy and made of dried, salty, matured pork, which is said to be non-thermal processed meat production.

As I said, this anmswer is neutral in possibility of correctness, so please use extensive check yourself.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-10 01:43:53 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, ¥"Prosciutto Crudo¥" could be another possibility of the actual output.


    Reference: http://www.ice-tokyo.or.jp/SALUMERIA-ITALIANA/jhtml/c02_j.ht...
    Reference: http://www.montebussan.co.jp/foods/sp_200009_1.html
Minoru Kuwahara
Japan
Local time: 21:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: Japanese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Katsuhiko KAKUNO, Ph.D.: 日本の法令による「生ハム」は、諸外国と異なると聞いたことがありますが、どうなんでしょうか
4 hrs

neutral  LEXICON KK: Crude wouldn't be the appropriate term here, although it makes sense to a degree
7 hrs
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
cured ham


Explanation:
生ハム= cured ham

There are two ways of curing pork;
1) Apply plenty of salt on uncooked pork and naturally hang-dry it over time. Italian prosciutto is a good example of this. It's really salty.

2) Smoke pork. One of the sites below says this company uses low-temperature smoke for a long period of time to cure the meat. It's not as salty as 1).

Now, the ham is not raw meat like sashimi. It's cured and still considered UNCOOKED.

By the way, my Italian cookbook says that in Italy, prosciutto means any kind of ham, cooked or uncooked. What the Japanese and Americans call prosciutto is just one kind of ham, cured and uncooked. I guess it's just like calling cantuccio "biscotti" in America when biscotti means just biscuit in Italy.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-10 11:14:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A site to show that what you call 生ハム in Japan is NOT at all cooked beforehand. http://page.freett.com/kaigai/namahamu.htm


    Reference: http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~kunsei/ham.htm
    Reference: http://www.montebussan.co.jp/foods/sp_200009_1.html
mkj
United States
Local time: 05:51
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  LEXICON KK: Yes, this is probably the most reasonable answer. "Dry-cured ham" is also another alternative answer... as 生ハム is 乾燥+塩漬け "cured ham" alone is fine though
47 mins
  -> Dry-cured, salt-cured, country-cured...あー、お腹すいた!

agree  Yoshiro Shibasaki, PhD
2 days6 hrs
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
(dry) cured, aged and smoked ham


Explanation:
Just wanted to mention a few things

First things, 生ハム is interpreted differently by countries.
For example, in the US where I live, literally, "raw ham" would be what YMW suggested and what the US FSIS calls as "fresh ham" because in the states, when talking about "raw" foods, it means it's uncured/uncooked/untouched.
However, in Japan, 生ハム is not technically "raw" as the literal translation suggests. According to all these sites I've visited, it states that 生ハム is "cured", "aged (for a specific time, 3-9 months, etc)", and "smoked" at a low temperature.

Hence, technically speaking, the Japanese interpretation of 生ハム to English would be "(dry) cured, aged and smoked(at a low temperature) ham" since it has the following characteristics:
乾燥・塩漬け・熟成・燻製(低温)

However, I think it may be sufficient enough to simply translate it as "cured ham" (as mkj-san stated) in most cases.

NOTE: ラックスハム (Lachs ham) which the asker brought up previously as a Kudoz question, has the same general characteristics, it is "cured, aged, and smoked ham (german style)." This explains why some Japanese relate ラックスハム to be 生ハム in grocery stores, markets and other places.

Altogether, the Japanese interpretation of 生ハム would be the equavalent of "country ham" (see 2nd link) in the US, "jamon serrano" in Spain, and "prosciuttos" in Italy. They are all cured, aged for a time being, and smoked at last.

The only difference is the quality of the ham. Apparently the quality of the pigs in Italy and Spain are far superior than the rest of the world!!

Hope all of this helps.

I know too much about ham now, I hope you do too!

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Note added at 2002-07-10 10:35:24 (GMT)
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Sorry, made a mistake.
¥"jamon serrrano¥" and ¥"prosciuttos¥" are just the hams originating from Spain and Italy respectively. They can be cured, cooked in whatever fashion.


    Reference: http://user.komazawa.com/hagi/kh_hamu.html
    Reference: http://www.samcooks.com/SamSays/CountryHam.htm
LEXICON KK
Local time: 21:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in JapaneseJapanese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kaori Myatt
21 hrs
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