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なんちゃって認証

English translation: unofficial authentication

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:なんちゃって認証
English translation:unofficial authentication
Entered by: conejo
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17:29 Aug 24, 2010
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - IT (Information Technology)
Japanese term or phrase: なんちゃって認証
I found these 2 links that talk briefly about this term:
http://blog.koss.jp/category_internet/1/article_147.html
http://www.uniadex.co.jp/nextalk/special/sp2002_08.html

But I still don't really know what to translate it as. Any thoughts?? Informal authentication? Unofficial authentication? Borrowed authentication system?
conejo
United States
Local time: 13:36
unofficial certification
Explanation:
This is not my field, but here is some information for you:

---Based on the below websites, it seems that the word "unofficial" would be a logical fit. (For example for:...要約すると、日本の公共機関の認証局が「なんちゃって認証局」状態のまま放置されているので...)

http://hirotyanteikoku.cocolog-nifty.com/cocolog/2006/11/ssl...

でそんなわけで、SSLの証明書を作成することになりました。
証明書と言っても自宅サーバで自分が使う用のものだから、有料の機関が認証したきちんとしたものではなくて、”なんちゃって証明書”です。タダで作れます。す。タダで作れます。

要約すると、日本の公共機関の認証局が「なんちゃって認証局」状態のまま放置されているので、誰でも日本国政府や地方自治体に成りすましたSSL通信が可能な状態になっているという事だ。


http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/認証局
証局
暗号において、公開鍵証明書認証局または認証局 (こうかいかぎしょうめいしょにんしょうきょく、にんしょうきょく、CA、Certification Authority) は、他の当事者にデジタル 公開鍵証明書 を発行する実体である。これは、信頼された第三者 の例である。
サービスに課金する商用CAは多い。政府などではCAを独自に立てていることがあり、またそれ以外に無料のCAもある。

---Here's some extra information which may be related to your question in terminology usage:
1) I think this is a good website about インチキ認証局 which is rogue certification authority (CA).
2) “CA” is short for “certification authority.”
http://jp.techcrunch.com/archives/20081230md5-collision-crea...

MD5コリジョンでインチキ認証局は作れる(ネットにとっては悪い報せ)
世界のハッカーが集う毎年恒例「第25回カオス コミュニケーション会議(CCC)」で本日(米国時間12/30)、MD5アルゴリズムへの衝突攻撃を使ってインチキ認証局(CA)を作ったプロセスを研究者たちが開陳する。これは大ニュースなので、このまま読み進めてね。

Selected response from:

Joyce A
Thailand
Local time: 01:36
Grading comment
Based on the various information, I think I have to go with "unofficial authentication". What's strange about this term なんちゃって認証 is that despite なんちゃって being a slang word, "なんちゃって認証" is used a lot online... It almost sounds like it's becoming a non-slang term. Thanks everybody, for your input.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +2unofficial certification
Joyce A
5 -1"the Whatever-its-called Certification"
Richard Smith
4mimic authentication
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)
4Authorization by using another different prior authorization
Japamerican
3self-imposed authentication; pseudo-authentication
fumipi829
3bogus certificationkazari
3Third-party AuthenticationRaitei
3 -1arbitrary OR unilateral authentification
humbird
Summary of reference entries provided
fake autenticationV N Ganesh

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
self-imposed authentication; pseudo-authentication


Explanation:
あまり自信はありませんが、自前で勝手にするというニュアンスでself-imposedかなと思いましたが、本物でないということでpseudoというのもいかがでしょうか。

fumipi829
Local time: 11:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  V N Ganesh
10 hrs

neutral  humbird: I would use "self-claimed" instead of "self-imposed". The latter does not sound right to me.
22 hrs

disagree  Raitei: Translation would be a piece of cake if it were about translating words. Please strive to translate CONCEPTS and consider any cultural differences that come into play in the target language. Thank you very much.
23 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
mimic authentication


Explanation:
Nanchatte=imitiation; ninsho=authentication see In order for this mixed model authentication scenario to work, and also to make it ... and to extract those roles, and mimic a forms authentication process. ...
www.15seconds.com/issue/050203.htm and: I don't run vBulletin on my site (maybe in the future), but I would like to mimic their authentication since it seems like a robust software ...
www.devcomments.com/How-to-mimic-vBulletin-type-authenticat...

Example sentence(s):
  • The distinct advantage of public-key-based remote authentication over mechanisms that mimic authentication to the local environment is that sensitive
  • In order for this mixed model authentication scenario to work, and also to make it ... and to extract those roles, and mimic a forms authentication process.

    Reference: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700808.aspx
    Reference: http://www.15seconds.com/issue/050203.htm
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)
Thailand
Local time: 01:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ThaiThai
PRO pts in category: 4
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
unofficial certification


Explanation:
This is not my field, but here is some information for you:

---Based on the below websites, it seems that the word "unofficial" would be a logical fit. (For example for:...要約すると、日本の公共機関の認証局が「なんちゃって認証局」状態のまま放置されているので...)

http://hirotyanteikoku.cocolog-nifty.com/cocolog/2006/11/ssl...

でそんなわけで、SSLの証明書を作成することになりました。
証明書と言っても自宅サーバで自分が使う用のものだから、有料の機関が認証したきちんとしたものではなくて、”なんちゃって証明書”です。タダで作れます。す。タダで作れます。

要約すると、日本の公共機関の認証局が「なんちゃって認証局」状態のまま放置されているので、誰でも日本国政府や地方自治体に成りすましたSSL通信が可能な状態になっているという事だ。


http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/認証局
証局
暗号において、公開鍵証明書認証局または認証局 (こうかいかぎしょうめいしょにんしょうきょく、にんしょうきょく、CA、Certification Authority) は、他の当事者にデジタル 公開鍵証明書 を発行する実体である。これは、信頼された第三者 の例である。
サービスに課金する商用CAは多い。政府などではCAを独自に立てていることがあり、またそれ以外に無料のCAもある。

---Here's some extra information which may be related to your question in terminology usage:
1) I think this is a good website about インチキ認証局 which is rogue certification authority (CA).
2) “CA” is short for “certification authority.”
http://jp.techcrunch.com/archives/20081230md5-collision-crea...

MD5コリジョンでインチキ認証局は作れる(ネットにとっては悪い報せ)
世界のハッカーが集う毎年恒例「第25回カオス コミュニケーション会議(CCC)」で本日(米国時間12/30)、MD5アルゴリズムへの衝突攻撃を使ってインチキ認証局(CA)を作ったプロセスを研究者たちが開陳する。これは大ニュースなので、このまま読み進めてね。



Joyce A
Thailand
Local time: 01:36
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
Based on the various information, I think I have to go with "unofficial authentication". What's strange about this term なんちゃって認証 is that despite なんちゃって being a slang word, "なんちゃって認証" is used a lot online... It almost sounds like it's becoming a non-slang term. Thanks everybody, for your input.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Raitei: Seems that the word "unofficial" would be a logical fit? How do you explain the logic behind such a "logical" judgment?
9 hrs
  -> Dude, your stoned surfer dude impression is a riot. To answer your question, my reason for using the word “unofficial” for (なんちゃって認証局) is in contrast to the more “official certification” of “日本の公共機関の認証局”.

agree  Haydon Jones: How about "unauthenticated login process"? I think that authentification needs some kind of actual proof of identity such as DL or passport. In this process you can say you are Bill Gates without having to show ID
15 hrs
  -> Thank you, Luckyluke. I imagine lots of people try to use the Bill Gates name. :-)

agree  Richard Smith: Yes, this would be the best translation according to the context given (and, IMHO, it's a better answer than surfer dude's ^;^)
1 day11 hrs
  -> Thank you, Richard! ^;^)

neutral  humbird: I think your answer is clear to the point. However, to me, なんちゃってhas some nuiance that such succinctness may not be able to address. What you think?
4 days
  -> Hi humbird! TY for your comments. インチキ認証局 in English is “rogue certification”so I think なんちゃってcan safely be translated as “unofficial” per my examples. “インチキ”is quack, dishonest, fake, counterfeit, etc. but it turns into “rogue.” Interesting! :-)
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23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
arbitrary OR unilateral authentification


Explanation:
Essentially なんちゃって is colloquial expression for "self-claimed", "on one's own judgment", or "arbitrarily made" assertions.

As for "認証", I think your choice of authentification sounds good as this is in IT context.

HTH

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Raitei: Arbitrary authentification means absolutely nothing in the English language. Please people.
46 mins
  -> I don't understand what you want to say. Please articulate. Well English is beyond you, you better say it in Japanese. However even then, I strongly recommend you clear your foggy head before you post anyting. I sure like what Joyce said about you!
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23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Third-party Authentication


Explanation:
According to the example given on http://www.uniadex.co.jp/nextalk/special/sp2002_08.html , a water company database is being used for authentication purposes by other business and municipal agencies. By supplying this information, it acts as a third-party data supplier.

I think people here are making a big deal out of 「なんちゃって」. Although it has the connotation of "BS (or cheapskate) Authentication," I do not think it needs to be translated because the idea of third-party authentication isn't so bad in the Western world AFAIK.

Raitei
Japan
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 day13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Authorization by using another different prior authorization


Explanation:
It is a form of authorization, where you could authorize yourself by showing a prior authorization, such as a historical record of your payment of your water bill.

For example, if you wanted to get an account at a local library, and they need proof of your residence. So if they accept your utility bill as a proof, and you get authorized, the process of you being authorized by this method is called なんちゃって認証.


Example sentence(s):
  • また、個人認証に関しては面白い話があります。言葉としてはあまり良くないですが、「なんちゃって認証」というものです。例えば、市立の図書館で本を借りたという経歴があったとしま

    Reference: http://www.uniadex.co.jp/nextalk/special/sp2002_08.html
Japamerican
United States
Local time: 11:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in JapaneseJapanese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Raitei: Yes. That is why I said "Third-party Authentication."
2 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
"the Whatever-its-called Certification"


Explanation:
「なんちゃって」 is colloquial language; the equivalent in English is "whatever", "blah blah", "so-and-so", "something or other"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2010-08-25 03:50:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...add an apostrophe in there "it's".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2010-08-26 09:44:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Change to "Fake Certification" if you don't mind.

Some leg-pulling by one of the Beach Boys has stimulated me into carrying out a bit of research. 「なんちゃって」, as well as being 「若者言葉」as above, has taken on the meaning of "fake" or "copied".

Sorry, I'm a bit behind on this...too much red-eyeing it with all night translations zzz...

Richard Smith
Canada
Local time: 14:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Raitei: Like DUDE. I saw this narly looking board in Malibu but didn't have any ID on me. I was like so bummed. But the rental shop offer me a "Whatever-its-called Certification" and I was like SCORE, I got me a killer surfboard. Rock on!
15 hrs
  -> Never having been to Malibu and not knowing anything about surfing, that is not really what I had in mind. Well I did clearly state above that 「なんちゃって」 is colloquial slang.
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89 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
bogus certification


Explanation:
With なんちゃって being slang, the English translation should also reflect the slangy tone of the original Japanese phrase in http://blog.koss.jp/category_internet/1/article_147.html

So a thesaurus lookup of "fake" turned up sham, bogus, flimflam etc. I chose the most slangy that also tries to accurately reflect the playfully deriding tone of the original Japanese text. It also helps that the original English version of the Japanese translated article (http://jp.techcrunch.com/archives/20081230md5-collision-crea... referenced by Joyce uses "bogus certification authority" as well.

Original English article of Japanese article referenced by Joyce:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/12/30/md5-collision-creates-r...

The author of the blog post is criticizing how the Japanese government is trying to start its own certificate authority without running it in the proper fashion. Now what does that mean? We need some technical background on what a certificate authority is and what its used for.

I'm not an expert but I have generated my own key pairs and setup web servers to use SSL encryption (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LAMP#SSL). Without going too much into the intricacies of public key encryption, anyone can generate their own public/private key pairs for encrypted data communications between two parties. These are basically text files with coded strings of text generated with an algorithm. These keys not only serve to encrypt but also uniquely identify the sender. But since these keys can be generated by anyone (if you know of software to generate them for you), how do you really know the key you receives is from who they say they are? This is where a 3rd party certification agent comes in to vouch that the sender is who they say they are and is a trusted person or institution that has registered and proven themselves to the certificate authority. If you're dealing with a bank web site, you want to make sure the site's encryption keys have been preregistered with a trusted certification authority (Verisign) or else you could be giving your account login and personal info to a rogue site that collects your data for less than kosher purposes. Visiting the rogue site will also probably involve DNS hacking to replace the bank server's IP with the rogue site's in some manner but we won't get into that.

The author of the blog is rolling his eyes at the Japanese government that is creating its own certificate authority without properly verifying the keys registered with it. The government is trying to use the encryption feature of the keys without the 3rd party verification of identity to provide trust that is the purpose of a certificate authority and so he playfully derides the technical cluelessness of the government in his blog article by saying they're setting up "bogus certs".

I do not pretend the technical information I gave is completely accurate but for the purposes of translating the phrase in question I think it is probably enough.

kazari
Japan
Local time: 03:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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Reference comments


10 hrs peer agreement (net): -1
Reference: fake autentication

Reference information:
17 Jun 2010 ... The fake authentication attack allows you to perform the two types of WEP authentication (Open System and Shared Key) plus associate with ...

Description - Usage - Usage Examples - Usage Tips
www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=fake_authentication -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2010-08-25 04:20:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

16 Jun 2009 ... Do you know how many teeth a comb has? The answer is 36. 9(ku)times 4(shi)is 36. Just kidding. Another usage in these days is an adjective, meaning fake or artificial. Ex: 「なんちゃってシャネル」Nanchatte Chanel. ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - United States -

V N Ganesh
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
disagree  Raitei: Yup. Fake authentification...ok. I guess that is why they pay like 1 yen per character in India.
13 hrs
  -> If you deserve more than that pl.post the correct answer for this question
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