"se"

English translation: see explanation

09:00 May 19, 2005

Latin to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics

Latin term or phrase: "se"

Here's my sentence:

Cleopatra timebat enim ne Octavianus vellet se captivam per vias Romae ducere, cum triumphum ageret; quod dedecus ferre non poterat.

It feels like this "se" refers to Cleopatra, but I have been insistently told that it is referring to Octavianus.
What's your opinion about it?

Thank you very much in advance for your answer..

Gamze Ozfirat KudoZ activity Questions: 62 (3 open) Answers: 73
Local time: 01:25

English translation:see explanation

Explanation:
Dear Gamze,

"timebat" here is a verb of "fear". Thus, "ne" here works as "that", with an affirmative clause instead of a negative, which would be normal for "ne".

"Cleopatra, indeed, was afraid that Octavianus would lead her captive through the streets of Rome".

"Se" here is clear Cleopatra, 3rd singular pronoun. It could never be Octavianus because context clearly tell us that:

-"se" is the object of "ducere": to lead HER
-"se" goes with "captivam" which is accusative as well, and an adjective that defines "se" - it is clearly feminine :) (captivAM instead of captivUM)

"she was afraid that he would want to lead HER captive (in chains) through the streets of Rome"

I hope this helps you :)

Best wishes
Flavio

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Note added at 28 mins (2005-05-19 09:28:44 GMT)
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Yes, it could be \"eam\" as well, but in this case Octavian should be \"eum\" too... I like the reflexive \"flavour\" of \"se\" here for Cleopatra, and I think its proximity to captivam is vital here.

Selected response from:

Flavio Ferri-Benedetti
Switzerland
Local time: 00:25

Grading comment

Mille grazie, caro Flavio!.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +8

see explanation

Flavio Ferri-Benedetti

4 +7

Se refers to Cléopâtra

Pierre POUSSIN

5 -2

to Octavianus

Giusi Pasi

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

4 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

Se Se refers to Cléopâtra

Explanation:
She feared that he should take her to his triumph in Rome.

Pierre POUSSIN
France
Local time: 00:25
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 3

19 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +8

see explanation

Flavio Ferri-Benedetti
Switzerland
Local time: 00:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Italian,

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8

Grading comment

Mille grazie, caro Flavio!.

8 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -2

to Octavianus

Explanation:
because 'se' is the subject of the proposition (ducere) referred to O. (...that he (se) lead her..)

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Note added at 1 hr 28 mins (2005-05-19 10:29:05 GMT)
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My colleagues are right. As a matter of fact, \'se\' is together \'captivam, then Flavio\'s explanation is brilliant.

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Note added at 1 hr 28 mins (2005-05-19 10:29:35 GMT)
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together with, of course

Giusi Pasi
Italy
Local time: 00:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: Italian

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