KudoZ home » Latin to English » Other

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

English translation: "It is sweet and proper to die for one's country" ( Horace )

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Latin term or phrase:Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
English translation:"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country" ( Horace )
Entered by: xxxdawn39
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

15:39 Dec 27, 2003
Latin to English translations [Non-PRO]
Latin term or phrase: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country" ( Horace )
Explanation:
D.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 15:46:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The old Lie: \"Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.\" (\"It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country.\") -- Horace

www.nonviolence.org/amhvigil/200226.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Happy New Year!
:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:00:25 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Owen Seaman
Pro Patria

England, in this great fight to which you go
Because, where Honour calls you, go you must,
Be glad, whatever comes, at least to know
You have your quarrel just.

Peace was your care; before the nations\' bar
Her cause you pleaded and her ends you sought;
But not for her sake, being what you are,
Could you be bribed and bought.

Others may spurn the pledge of land to land,
May with the brute sword stain a gallant past;
But by the seal to which you set your hand,
Thank God, you still stand fast!

Forth, then, to front that peril of the deep
With smiling lips and in your eyes the light,
Steadfast and confident, of those who keep
Their storied scutcheon bright.

And we, whose burden is to watch and wait--
High-hearted ever, strong in faith and prayer,
We ask what offering we may consecrate,
What humble service share.

To steel our souls against the lust of ease;
To find our welfare in the common good;
To hold together, merging all degrees
In one wide brotherhood;--

To teach that he who saves himself is lost;
To bear in silence though our hearts may bleed;
To spend ourselves, and never count the cost,
For others\' greater need;--

To go our quiet ways, subdued and sane;
To hush all vulgar clamour of the street;
With level calm to face alike the strain
Of triumph or defeat;--

This be our part, for so we serve you best,
So best confirm their prowess and their pride,
Your warrior sons, to whom in this high test
Our fortunes we confide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One cannot help but think about Seaman\'s title \"Pro Patria\" in connection with Wilfred Owen\'s \"Dulce et Decorum Est\"; both titles come from the same line by **Horace, \"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori [It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country].\"** Owen uses the reference ironically, but Seaman is quite sincere in his allusion to the line from Horace.
These two poems, set side by side, suggest much about the way in which the two generations viewed the war and the sacrifices that young men felt they were being asked to make by the older men who wielded the power and decided the diplomacy. But that is a common enough sentiment, even today: \"Old men make wars that young men have to fight.\"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Emory University

www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/LostPoets/Seaman.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
When World War I broke out, the English saw going off to battle as a fine thing to do. They embraced the Latin poet Horace\'s dictum, **\"Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori\" — It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country**. But four years later, that romantic notion had been shattered by the grim reality of the mustard-gas-laced killing fields, and by the bitter words of Wilfred Owen, a British officer now recognized as the greatest poet of the Great War. Owen reported from the battlefields of France that, contrary to the prettified accounts being served up, the war he witnessed was full of blood \"gargling\" up from \"froth-corrupted lungs\" and \"vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues.\"

He is often portrayed as antiwar, which he was not. What he stood for was seeing war clearly, which makes him especially relevant today. The Bush administration has been loudly attacking the news media for misreporting the Iraq conflict by leaving out good news. Owen would counter — in vivid, gripping images — that it is the White House, with its campaign to hide casualties from view, that is dangerously distorting reality.

. . .

Owen, who was commended posthumously for inflicting \"considerable losses on the enemy,\" was no pacifist. He told his mother he had a dual mission: to lead his men \"as well as an officer can\" but also to watch their \"sufferings that I may speak of them.\"

. . .

The Bush administration, however, is resisting this honorable approach. In its eagerness to convince the public that things are going well in Iraq, it is leading troops into battle, while trying its best to obscure what happens to them.

Posted by Donald Douglas at **November 9, 2003 11:02 AM**

giveyoujoy.net/us/000767.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
\"Dulce et Decorum Est\"
This, his best known work, was written while in hospital, purposefully staying up late at night in an effort to avoid the nightmares of war that plagued him. It was his first attempt to write directly of the war\'s brutality. The title comes from a work by the Roman poet Horace. The accepted translation for the complete line is **\"It is fitting and proper to dies for one\'s country.\"** In Latin, \"dulce\" means sweet. Another reading of the title could be **\"It is proper and sweet to die for one\'s country\".

jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jsa3/hum355/assign/owen.htm
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Another version:

\"It is sweet and glorious to die for one´s country\"

Absolutely amazing poem by Wilfred Owen (1893-1918), one of the best poets of all time. Among others, the thoroughly repulsive slogan \"Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori\" (=\"It is sweet and glorious to die for one\'s country\") was used in England during World War I, to get young British men enthused about going off to get slaughtered.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DULCE ET DECORUM EST

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned out backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!--An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound\'ring like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil\'s sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
**The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori**.

www.psy-co.net/musings/poems/dulce.html






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:13:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SORRY, my friends...
I have noticed that one of my references has got some MISTAKES:

\"It is fitting and proper to *dies* for one\'s country.\" > die
:(

\"In Latin, \"dulce\" means sweet. Another reading of the title could be **\"It is *proper and sweet* to die for one\'s country\".
Here, the order of the adjectives is wrong.
:(

From > jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jsa3/hum355/assign/owen.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:17:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Up to now, I have found 4 versions:

- \"It is sweet and proper to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and glorious to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and fittting to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and honourable to die for one´s country\"

\"Owen used a specific way of writing to make his thoughts stick into the readers\' minds and make them think. He did not want to state the obvious, so he chose to include \"Dulce et decorum est/ pro patria mori\" meaning **\"It is sweet and honourable to die for one\'s country\"**. It is a well known Latin motto. He is using irony here because it was his desire for the readers to remember this phrase and every time they thought about the army, they would recall it and change their minds about joining\".

www.coursework.info/i/38655.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 17:43:46 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My personal version would be this one:

\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for your country /homeland\"
Also...
\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for the Motherland\"

decorum = proper, beautiful, honourable, glorious, fitting, elegant,
smart...

And I have just realized that my first version already exists, as well...

\"*Dulce decorum est pro patria mori*\"
Translates closely to:

**\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for your country**\".

There is a famous WW1 anti-war poem that uses that line as its conclusion (and title)\".

www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/ viewtopic.php?t=1348&start=15
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
More versions perhaps...?



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-01-03 17:19:20 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You are welcome, whoever you are.
:)
Selected response from:

xxxdawn39
Grading comment
Many thanks for your help
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
5 +4It is sweet and glorius to die for one's country
Cristina Moldovan do Amaral
5 +4"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country" ( Horace )xxxdawn39
4 +2It is sweet and honourable to die for one's country
Jozsef Gal
3 +1it is sweet and dignified to die for your country.
verbis


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
It is sweet and glorius to die for one's country


Explanation:
.

Cristina Moldovan do Amaral
United States
Local time: 14:40
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian
PRO pts in pair: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Stefanie Sendelbach: glorious*
2 mins
  -> Glorious, of course. Sorry for the typo.

agree  Joseph Brazauskas
16 mins
  -> Thank you and Happy New Year!

agree  xxxdawn39: yes, "glorious". Happy New Year, Cristina! :)
35 mins
  -> Thank you! Happy New Year to you, Dawn :))

agree  Eva Blanar: Horatius
55 mins
  -> Thank you and Happy New Year!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country" ( Horace )


Explanation:
D.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 15:46:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The old Lie: \"Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.\" (\"It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country.\") -- Horace

www.nonviolence.org/amhvigil/200226.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Happy New Year!
:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:00:25 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Owen Seaman
Pro Patria

England, in this great fight to which you go
Because, where Honour calls you, go you must,
Be glad, whatever comes, at least to know
You have your quarrel just.

Peace was your care; before the nations\' bar
Her cause you pleaded and her ends you sought;
But not for her sake, being what you are,
Could you be bribed and bought.

Others may spurn the pledge of land to land,
May with the brute sword stain a gallant past;
But by the seal to which you set your hand,
Thank God, you still stand fast!

Forth, then, to front that peril of the deep
With smiling lips and in your eyes the light,
Steadfast and confident, of those who keep
Their storied scutcheon bright.

And we, whose burden is to watch and wait--
High-hearted ever, strong in faith and prayer,
We ask what offering we may consecrate,
What humble service share.

To steel our souls against the lust of ease;
To find our welfare in the common good;
To hold together, merging all degrees
In one wide brotherhood;--

To teach that he who saves himself is lost;
To bear in silence though our hearts may bleed;
To spend ourselves, and never count the cost,
For others\' greater need;--

To go our quiet ways, subdued and sane;
To hush all vulgar clamour of the street;
With level calm to face alike the strain
Of triumph or defeat;--

This be our part, for so we serve you best,
So best confirm their prowess and their pride,
Your warrior sons, to whom in this high test
Our fortunes we confide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One cannot help but think about Seaman\'s title \"Pro Patria\" in connection with Wilfred Owen\'s \"Dulce et Decorum Est\"; both titles come from the same line by **Horace, \"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori [It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country].\"** Owen uses the reference ironically, but Seaman is quite sincere in his allusion to the line from Horace.
These two poems, set side by side, suggest much about the way in which the two generations viewed the war and the sacrifices that young men felt they were being asked to make by the older men who wielded the power and decided the diplomacy. But that is a common enough sentiment, even today: \"Old men make wars that young men have to fight.\"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Emory University

www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/LostPoets/Seaman.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
When World War I broke out, the English saw going off to battle as a fine thing to do. They embraced the Latin poet Horace\'s dictum, **\"Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori\" — It is sweet and proper to die for one\'s country**. But four years later, that romantic notion had been shattered by the grim reality of the mustard-gas-laced killing fields, and by the bitter words of Wilfred Owen, a British officer now recognized as the greatest poet of the Great War. Owen reported from the battlefields of France that, contrary to the prettified accounts being served up, the war he witnessed was full of blood \"gargling\" up from \"froth-corrupted lungs\" and \"vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues.\"

He is often portrayed as antiwar, which he was not. What he stood for was seeing war clearly, which makes him especially relevant today. The Bush administration has been loudly attacking the news media for misreporting the Iraq conflict by leaving out good news. Owen would counter — in vivid, gripping images — that it is the White House, with its campaign to hide casualties from view, that is dangerously distorting reality.

. . .

Owen, who was commended posthumously for inflicting \"considerable losses on the enemy,\" was no pacifist. He told his mother he had a dual mission: to lead his men \"as well as an officer can\" but also to watch their \"sufferings that I may speak of them.\"

. . .

The Bush administration, however, is resisting this honorable approach. In its eagerness to convince the public that things are going well in Iraq, it is leading troops into battle, while trying its best to obscure what happens to them.

Posted by Donald Douglas at **November 9, 2003 11:02 AM**

giveyoujoy.net/us/000767.html
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
\"Dulce et Decorum Est\"
This, his best known work, was written while in hospital, purposefully staying up late at night in an effort to avoid the nightmares of war that plagued him. It was his first attempt to write directly of the war\'s brutality. The title comes from a work by the Roman poet Horace. The accepted translation for the complete line is **\"It is fitting and proper to dies for one\'s country.\"** In Latin, \"dulce\" means sweet. Another reading of the title could be **\"It is proper and sweet to die for one\'s country\".

jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jsa3/hum355/assign/owen.htm
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Another version:

\"It is sweet and glorious to die for one´s country\"

Absolutely amazing poem by Wilfred Owen (1893-1918), one of the best poets of all time. Among others, the thoroughly repulsive slogan \"Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori\" (=\"It is sweet and glorious to die for one\'s country\") was used in England during World War I, to get young British men enthused about going off to get slaughtered.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DULCE ET DECORUM EST

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned out backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!--An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound\'ring like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil\'s sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
**The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori**.

www.psy-co.net/musings/poems/dulce.html






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:13:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SORRY, my friends...
I have noticed that one of my references has got some MISTAKES:

\"It is fitting and proper to *dies* for one\'s country.\" > die
:(

\"In Latin, \"dulce\" means sweet. Another reading of the title could be **\"It is *proper and sweet* to die for one\'s country\".
Here, the order of the adjectives is wrong.
:(

From > jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jsa3/hum355/assign/owen.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 16:17:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Up to now, I have found 4 versions:

- \"It is sweet and proper to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and glorious to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and fittting to die for one´s country\"
- \"It is sweet and honourable to die for one´s country\"

\"Owen used a specific way of writing to make his thoughts stick into the readers\' minds and make them think. He did not want to state the obvious, so he chose to include \"Dulce et decorum est/ pro patria mori\" meaning **\"It is sweet and honourable to die for one\'s country\"**. It is a well known Latin motto. He is using irony here because it was his desire for the readers to remember this phrase and every time they thought about the army, they would recall it and change their minds about joining\".

www.coursework.info/i/38655.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 17:43:46 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My personal version would be this one:

\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for your country /homeland\"
Also...
\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for the Motherland\"

decorum = proper, beautiful, honourable, glorious, fitting, elegant,
smart...

And I have just realized that my first version already exists, as well...

\"*Dulce decorum est pro patria mori*\"
Translates closely to:

**\"It is sweet and beautiful to die for your country**\".

There is a famous WW1 anti-war poem that uses that line as its conclusion (and title)\".

www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/ viewtopic.php?t=1348&start=15
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
More versions perhaps...?



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-01-03 17:19:20 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You are welcome, whoever you are.
:)


xxxdawn39
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 12
Grading comment
Many thanks for your help

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joseph Brazauskas
16 mins
  -> thanks a lot, Joseph. I wish you a Happy New Year :)

agree  Isabelle DEFEVERE
47 mins
  -> thanks a lot, Isabelle. Happy New Year! :)

agree  Eva Blanar: Beautiful collection: yes, it is difficult to translate both "patria" (one's own country) and "decorum" (something like: deserving a medal/prize) into English.
58 mins
  -> thanks, Eva. Well, these are the "official" translations. For "patria", I would choose "Mother country" or "homeland". As for "decorum", is has different meanings, you know. Happy New Year! :)

agree  verbis: honourable
6 hrs
  -> thanks a lot. My Latin dictionary offers a lot of choices for "decorum": it is difficult to know which one would be Horace´s idea... That´s the main problem here. If only we could ask him :))
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
It is sweet and honourable to die for one's country


Explanation:
"decorare"could also mean "to honour"

Jozsef Gal
Local time: 00:40
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian, Native in RomanianRomanian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joseph Brazauskas: I agree that 'decorum' is here best translated 'honourable'.
13 mins

agree  xxxdawn39: yes, Josseph, I have found this version as well. Happy New Year! :)
32 mins
  -> Felicem Annum Novum
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
it is sweet and dignified to die for your country.


Explanation:
means that even if you die, you are not "worthless", it does not happen in vain

and you die with highest dignity


thinking it over again, "honour" does not exactly fit in this context


an thinking it over again again, "honour/honourable" is not the ptoper rendering of "decorum", which means a sort of so-to-say ornament

"decorum" = source of dignity

vale

ciao

laura


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 22:56:34 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

p.s.: apologies for the spelling mistakes...............

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 22:58:41 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

pp.ss.: so many translators, so many translations ;-))))))))))))

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 23:02:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

see also:

http://www.lma.to/pages/think5.html

all armies have wearily expected to hear since the Roman poet Horace (65-8 BC) wrote
\"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori\" - it is sweet and dignified to die ...














--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 23:03:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori (\"It is sweet and dignified to die for one\'s
country\" is a common epitaph on the tombstones of European soldiers. ...
www.angelfire.com/comics/newtanddave/poems.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 23:04:12 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wilfred Owen. At this time many boys still learned to read latin at
school. \"Dulce et decorum est pro-atria mori\" means \"It is sweet and dignified ...
www.caterham.redbridge.sch.uk/ history/trench/tw/tw20d.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 23:04:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Read this opening paragraph with an eye to thesis: Dulce et decorum est
pro patria mori. It is sweet and dignified to die for one\'s country. ...
www.hu.mtu.edu/~aerlebac/NextTerm.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-27 23:08:35 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"decorum\" means neither glory nor honour

it is something which adorn you(r death) with highest dignity

a fully Latin concept

right, I\'ll stop bothering you now



ad meliora ;-)))))))))))))))))))))))))


verbis
Local time: 23:40
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxdawn39: another version, yes, but I must say that "honourable" and "glorious" are right translations for "decorum", according to my Latin dictionary.Be sure: you are not bothering us :))
2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search