Mar 27, 2008 19:30
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Russian term
плач Ярославны
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
From a report about a conference on the development of the Russian Far East.
Исполнив очередной "плач Ярославны" о том, что Дальний Восток еще слишком далек от нас, что его связи ориентированы не на Россию, а на соседние государства, причем Китаю и Японии нужны только ресурсы, Дедюхин заметил, что и сделано немало.
From the context, I should think it must be: "After the usual list of complaints..."
I don't know if it's relevant, but I found the following song lyric:
ПЛАЧ ЯРОСЛАВНЫ
Жалобный – женами путь освоен,
Если б воины пенью вняли,
Раны б твои я омыла, воин,
Бебрян рукав омочив в Каяле,
Или иной, крещенской водице,
Чей ледок убелен-припорошен,
На тот Дунай-иродань – зегзицей,
Где грех прощает Предтеча Божий...
Плач возлетает, как птица-голубь,
Плач, начатый в Путивле, утром,
Там, где светла глубью-далью прорубь,
Над тем ледком, что снежком припудрен,
Над крещенскою иорданью
Покаяньем путь осчастливлен,
Плачем-даром иль плачем-данью,
Данью, собранною в Путивле.
Исполнив очередной "плач Ярославны" о том, что Дальний Восток еще слишком далек от нас, что его связи ориентированы не на Россию, а на соседние государства, причем Китаю и Японии нужны только ресурсы, Дедюхин заметил, что и сделано немало.
From the context, I should think it must be: "After the usual list of complaints..."
I don't know if it's relevant, but I found the following song lyric:
ПЛАЧ ЯРОСЛАВНЫ
Жалобный – женами путь освоен,
Если б воины пенью вняли,
Раны б твои я омыла, воин,
Бебрян рукав омочив в Каяле,
Или иной, крещенской водице,
Чей ледок убелен-припорошен,
На тот Дунай-иродань – зегзицей,
Где грех прощает Предтеча Божий...
Плач возлетает, как птица-голубь,
Плач, начатый в Путивле, утром,
Там, где светла глубью-далью прорубь,
Над тем ледком, что снежком припудрен,
Над крещенскою иорданью
Покаяньем путь осчастливлен,
Плачем-даром иль плачем-данью,
Данью, собранною в Путивле.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
17 mins
Selected
list of grievances
If the context were less official, I'd suggest 'whining,' but I don't think we can get away with that here. I also don't think the song matters even if it is a reference, because it would still mean nothing to the target audience. I like 'list of xxx,' but would personally prefer 'grievances' over 'complaints' -- just seems a bit more appropriate rendering of 'плач.'
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Note added at 25 mins (2008-03-27 19:56:23 GMT)
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Yes, I believe that's what they're trying to say here. I apologize if I misunderstood your question initially.
And I've found that leaving a question open for at least a day is always a good idea.
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Note added at 25 mins (2008-03-27 19:56:23 GMT)
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Yes, I believe that's what they're trying to say here. I apologize if I misunderstood your question initially.
And I've found that leaving a question open for at least a day is always a good idea.
Note from asker:
Thank you. So that would mean I was right about the general idea of it. I'll leave the question open for a bit longer. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Olga Cartlidge
: Point taken. I d overlooked the context this time.
58 mins
|
'Исполнив очередной плач' seems fairly loaded with sarcasm.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you. After all this long discussion, I am left with this or some other variant of my own original idea, such as "lament", possibly. You were the first to confirm this to me so I'm giving you the points."
15 mins
Yaroslavna's Lament
Prologue
The cathedral square in Putivl
Prince Igor is about to set out on a campaign against the Polovtsy and their Khans who have previously attacked the Russian lands. The people sing his praise and that of his son, the other leaders and the army (Chorus: "Glory to the beautiful Sun"). A solar eclipse takes place to general consternation. Two soldiers Skula and Yeroshka desert feeling sure that Vladimir Yaroslavich, Prince Galitsky, will offer them work more to their liking. Although Yaroslavna, Igor's wife, takes the eclipse for a bad omen, Igor insists that honour demands that he go to war. He leaves her to the care of her brother, Prince Galitsky, who tells of his gratitude to Igor for sheltering him after he was banished from his own home by his father and brothers. The people sing a great chorus of praise (Chorus: "Glory to the multitude of stars") as the host sets out on their campaign against the Polovtsy.
[edit] Act 1
Scene 1: Vladimir Galitsky's court in Putivl
Galitsky's followers sing his praise. Skula and Yeroshka are now working as gudok-players. They entertain the followers and all sing of how Galitsky and his men abducted a young woman and how she pleaded to be allowed to return to her father without being dishonoured. The prince arrives and sings of how, if he were Prince of Putivl, he would drink and feast all day while dispensing judgment and have the prettiest maidens with him all night (Galitsky's Song). The treasury would be spent on himself and his men while his sister would be praying in a monastery. A group of young women beg the prince to restore their abducted friend. He threatens them and drives them away, saying how she now lives in luxury in his quarters and does not have to work. The prince returns to his rooms having sent for wine for his followers. The gudok players and the prince's followers mock the women. They wonder what might happen if Yaroslavna hears of what happens, but then realise she would be helpless with all her men gone to war. They sing of how they are all drunkards and are supported by Galitsky. The men decide to go to the town square to declare Galitsky the Prince of Putivl, leaving just the two drunk musicians behind.
Scene 2: A room in Yaroslavna's palace
Yaraslavna is alone worrying about why she has not heard from Igor and his companions (Yaroslavna's Arioso). She sings of her tearful nights and nightmares and reminisces about when she was happy with Igor by her side. The nurse brings in the young women who tell Yaroslavna of their abducted friend. They are reluctant at first to reveal the culprit but eventually name Galitsky and talk of how he and his drunken followers cause trouble around Putivl. Galitsky enters and the women run away. Yaroslavna questions him as to the truth of their story and he mocks her saying she should treat him as a guest in her house. She threatens him with what Igor will do on his return, but Galitsky replies that he can seize the throne whenever he wants. Yaroslavna accuses him of repeating the betrayal that he carried out against their father, but he replies that he was only joking and asks if she has a lover now her husband is away. She threatens him with sending him back to their father. He replies that he will return the girl but will take another later and leaves. The council of boyars arrive to inform Yaroslavna that the Polovtsy under Khan Gzak are about to attack Putivl. Igor's army has been utterly destroyed and he has been wounded and captured with his son and brother. After a moment of faintness, Yaroslavna orders messengers sent to the city's allies, but the Boyars report that the roads are cut, some towns are in revolt and their princes will be captured. The Boyars say that they will organise the defence but Galitsky returns with his followers to demand that a new Prince be chosen. His retinue say it should be him as he is Yaroslavna's brother and Igor's brother-in-law. The boyars refuse. The argument is interrupted by the sight of flames and the sound of crying women. Some of the boyars flee; some join the battle, others guard the Princess. They call the attack God's judgment.
[edit] Act 2
Evening in the Polovtsian Camp
Polovtsian maidens sing comparing love to a flower that droops in the heat of the day and is revived ay night. They dance together (Dance of the Polovtsian Maidens). Konchakovna joins in the singing hoping that her own lover will join here soon (Konchakovna's Cavatina). The Russian prisoners arrive from their day's work and express their gratitide when fed. Their guards retire for the night leaving just Ovlur, a Christian, in charge. by Konchakovna and the maidens. Vladimir, son of Igor, sings of his hope that his love will soon join him now that the day is fading (Vladimir's Cavatina). His love is Konchakovna. She comes and the two sing of their love and their desire to marry (Love Duet). While her father will consent to the marriage, they know that his will not. They part when they hear Igor coming. He sings of his disgrace and torment at being captured with his followers dead (Prince Igor's Aria). Only his wife, he feels will be loyal. He hopes for the chance to regain his honour. Ovlur urges Ivan to escape and the prince agrees to think about it. Khan Konchak asks him if all is well (Konchak's Aria) and he replies that the falcon cannot live in captivity. Konchak says that as Igor did not ask for mercy he is not a prisoner but an honoured guest equal to a Khan. Igor reminds him that he too knows what it is to be a captive. Konchak offers Igor freedom if he will promise not to wage war on him again, but he refuses saying he cannot lie. Konchak regrets that they were not born to be allies. They would then have captured all of Russia. He summons the Polovtsian slaves to entertain Ivan and himself and offers Igor his choice of them. As the slaves dance the Polovtsy sing of Konchak's glory(Polovtsian Dances).
Konstantin Korovin's costume design for Konchakovna in the production of Prince Igor at the Mariinsky Theatre, 1909
Konstantin Korovin's costume design for Konchakovna in the production of Prince Igor at the Mariinsky Theatre, 1909
[edit] Act 3
The Polovtsian camp
The Polovtsian army returns in triumph singing the praise of Khan Gzak (Polovtsian March). Konchak sings of the sack of Putivl and other victories and confidently predicts that they will soon capture all of Russia. Igor and his son Vladimir have their worst fears confirmed by the new captives. Vladimir and the other prisoners urge Igor to escape, but he is at first reluctant, singing of his shame and saying that it is the duty of the other Russian princes to save the homeland (Igor's Monologue, Mariinsky edition only). Ovlur now arrives to say thay he has prepared horses for Igor and Vladimir and Igor now agrees to escape. The distressed Konchakovna comes, challenging Vladimir to show his love by either taking her with him or by staying. Igor urges his son to come, but Vladimir feels unable to leave Konchakovna who threatens to wake the camp. Eventually Igor flees alone and Konchakovna sounds the alarm. She and her father refuse to let the Polovtsy kill Vladimir. Instead Konchak orders the death of the guards and marries Vladimir to his daughter. As for Igor, Konchak thinks more of him for his escape.
[edit] Act 4
Dawn in Putivl
****
Yaroslavna weeps
***at her spearation from Igor and the defeat of his army, blaming the very elements themselves for helping the enemy (Yaroslavna's Lament). Peasant women blame not the wind but Khan Gzak for the devastation. As Yaroslavna looks around to acknowledge the destruction, she sees two riders in the distance who turn out to be Igor and Ovlur. The two lovers sing of their joy of being reunited and of the expectation that Ivan will lead the Russians to victory against the Khan. Unaware of the Igor's return, Skula and Yeroshka, the drunken gudok players, sing a song that mocks him. Then they notice him in the distance. After a moment of panic about what will happen to them, Skula says that they should rely on their cuning and decides on a plan that will save them. They ring the church bells to summon a crowd. Although people at first treat them with suspicion, the gudok players manage to convince the crowd that Igor has returned and the boyars that they are loyal followers of the true prince and not Galitsky. All joyously celebrate Igor's return.
===
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Igor
The cathedral square in Putivl
Prince Igor is about to set out on a campaign against the Polovtsy and their Khans who have previously attacked the Russian lands. The people sing his praise and that of his son, the other leaders and the army (Chorus: "Glory to the beautiful Sun"). A solar eclipse takes place to general consternation. Two soldiers Skula and Yeroshka desert feeling sure that Vladimir Yaroslavich, Prince Galitsky, will offer them work more to their liking. Although Yaroslavna, Igor's wife, takes the eclipse for a bad omen, Igor insists that honour demands that he go to war. He leaves her to the care of her brother, Prince Galitsky, who tells of his gratitude to Igor for sheltering him after he was banished from his own home by his father and brothers. The people sing a great chorus of praise (Chorus: "Glory to the multitude of stars") as the host sets out on their campaign against the Polovtsy.
[edit] Act 1
Scene 1: Vladimir Galitsky's court in Putivl
Galitsky's followers sing his praise. Skula and Yeroshka are now working as gudok-players. They entertain the followers and all sing of how Galitsky and his men abducted a young woman and how she pleaded to be allowed to return to her father without being dishonoured. The prince arrives and sings of how, if he were Prince of Putivl, he would drink and feast all day while dispensing judgment and have the prettiest maidens with him all night (Galitsky's Song). The treasury would be spent on himself and his men while his sister would be praying in a monastery. A group of young women beg the prince to restore their abducted friend. He threatens them and drives them away, saying how she now lives in luxury in his quarters and does not have to work. The prince returns to his rooms having sent for wine for his followers. The gudok players and the prince's followers mock the women. They wonder what might happen if Yaroslavna hears of what happens, but then realise she would be helpless with all her men gone to war. They sing of how they are all drunkards and are supported by Galitsky. The men decide to go to the town square to declare Galitsky the Prince of Putivl, leaving just the two drunk musicians behind.
Scene 2: A room in Yaroslavna's palace
Yaraslavna is alone worrying about why she has not heard from Igor and his companions (Yaroslavna's Arioso). She sings of her tearful nights and nightmares and reminisces about when she was happy with Igor by her side. The nurse brings in the young women who tell Yaroslavna of their abducted friend. They are reluctant at first to reveal the culprit but eventually name Galitsky and talk of how he and his drunken followers cause trouble around Putivl. Galitsky enters and the women run away. Yaroslavna questions him as to the truth of their story and he mocks her saying she should treat him as a guest in her house. She threatens him with what Igor will do on his return, but Galitsky replies that he can seize the throne whenever he wants. Yaroslavna accuses him of repeating the betrayal that he carried out against their father, but he replies that he was only joking and asks if she has a lover now her husband is away. She threatens him with sending him back to their father. He replies that he will return the girl but will take another later and leaves. The council of boyars arrive to inform Yaroslavna that the Polovtsy under Khan Gzak are about to attack Putivl. Igor's army has been utterly destroyed and he has been wounded and captured with his son and brother. After a moment of faintness, Yaroslavna orders messengers sent to the city's allies, but the Boyars report that the roads are cut, some towns are in revolt and their princes will be captured. The Boyars say that they will organise the defence but Galitsky returns with his followers to demand that a new Prince be chosen. His retinue say it should be him as he is Yaroslavna's brother and Igor's brother-in-law. The boyars refuse. The argument is interrupted by the sight of flames and the sound of crying women. Some of the boyars flee; some join the battle, others guard the Princess. They call the attack God's judgment.
[edit] Act 2
Evening in the Polovtsian Camp
Polovtsian maidens sing comparing love to a flower that droops in the heat of the day and is revived ay night. They dance together (Dance of the Polovtsian Maidens). Konchakovna joins in the singing hoping that her own lover will join here soon (Konchakovna's Cavatina). The Russian prisoners arrive from their day's work and express their gratitide when fed. Their guards retire for the night leaving just Ovlur, a Christian, in charge. by Konchakovna and the maidens. Vladimir, son of Igor, sings of his hope that his love will soon join him now that the day is fading (Vladimir's Cavatina). His love is Konchakovna. She comes and the two sing of their love and their desire to marry (Love Duet). While her father will consent to the marriage, they know that his will not. They part when they hear Igor coming. He sings of his disgrace and torment at being captured with his followers dead (Prince Igor's Aria). Only his wife, he feels will be loyal. He hopes for the chance to regain his honour. Ovlur urges Ivan to escape and the prince agrees to think about it. Khan Konchak asks him if all is well (Konchak's Aria) and he replies that the falcon cannot live in captivity. Konchak says that as Igor did not ask for mercy he is not a prisoner but an honoured guest equal to a Khan. Igor reminds him that he too knows what it is to be a captive. Konchak offers Igor freedom if he will promise not to wage war on him again, but he refuses saying he cannot lie. Konchak regrets that they were not born to be allies. They would then have captured all of Russia. He summons the Polovtsian slaves to entertain Ivan and himself and offers Igor his choice of them. As the slaves dance the Polovtsy sing of Konchak's glory(Polovtsian Dances).
Konstantin Korovin's costume design for Konchakovna in the production of Prince Igor at the Mariinsky Theatre, 1909
Konstantin Korovin's costume design for Konchakovna in the production of Prince Igor at the Mariinsky Theatre, 1909
[edit] Act 3
The Polovtsian camp
The Polovtsian army returns in triumph singing the praise of Khan Gzak (Polovtsian March). Konchak sings of the sack of Putivl and other victories and confidently predicts that they will soon capture all of Russia. Igor and his son Vladimir have their worst fears confirmed by the new captives. Vladimir and the other prisoners urge Igor to escape, but he is at first reluctant, singing of his shame and saying that it is the duty of the other Russian princes to save the homeland (Igor's Monologue, Mariinsky edition only). Ovlur now arrives to say thay he has prepared horses for Igor and Vladimir and Igor now agrees to escape. The distressed Konchakovna comes, challenging Vladimir to show his love by either taking her with him or by staying. Igor urges his son to come, but Vladimir feels unable to leave Konchakovna who threatens to wake the camp. Eventually Igor flees alone and Konchakovna sounds the alarm. She and her father refuse to let the Polovtsy kill Vladimir. Instead Konchak orders the death of the guards and marries Vladimir to his daughter. As for Igor, Konchak thinks more of him for his escape.
[edit] Act 4
Dawn in Putivl
****
Yaroslavna weeps
***at her spearation from Igor and the defeat of his army, blaming the very elements themselves for helping the enemy (Yaroslavna's Lament). Peasant women blame not the wind but Khan Gzak for the devastation. As Yaroslavna looks around to acknowledge the destruction, she sees two riders in the distance who turn out to be Igor and Ovlur. The two lovers sing of their joy of being reunited and of the expectation that Ivan will lead the Russians to victory against the Khan. Unaware of the Igor's return, Skula and Yeroshka, the drunken gudok players, sing a song that mocks him. Then they notice him in the distance. After a moment of panic about what will happen to them, Skula says that they should rely on their cuning and decides on a plan that will save them. They ring the church bells to summon a crowd. Although people at first treat them with suspicion, the gudok players manage to convince the crowd that Igor has returned and the boyars that they are loyal followers of the true prince and not Galitsky. All joyously celebrate Igor's return.
===
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Igor
32 mins
whining and wailing
remember, Yaroslavna was mourning...
Now, the Russian word "ispolnil" onbiously indicates that the author is very sarcastic about the speaker; I believe whining and wailing (which are usually used with the similar connotation) will render the author's feelings just fine
Now, the Russian word "ispolnil" onbiously indicates that the author is very sarcastic about the speaker; I believe whining and wailing (which are usually used with the similar connotation) will render the author's feelings just fine
42 mins
pro-imperial (nostalgic) mourning
First, I checked the lond and incomprehensible poem, to no avail. Then, I found an interesting article on the meaning of the poem - it's about the Russian & Tatar empire - see the first link
Then, I checked who Дедюхин was - a colonel, feeling nostalgic after the Great times of the Russian empire and a staunch leader who won't ever start "crying" - check the second link,
so you might go with something stronger than "mourning", more of a nagging, critics - up to you
Громко стеная со стен и по-бабьи проклиная Орду.
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Note added at 54 mins (2008-03-27 20:25:24 GMT)
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Well, the rest is valid
Then, I checked who Дедюхин was - a colonel, feeling nostalgic after the Great times of the Russian empire and a staunch leader who won't ever start "crying" - check the second link,
so you might go with something stronger than "mourning", more of a nagging, critics - up to you
Громко стеная со стен и по-бабьи проклиная Орду.
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Note added at 54 mins (2008-03-27 20:25:24 GMT)
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Well, the rest is valid
Reference:
Note from asker:
Не тот Дедюхин. Это человек современный - замглав Минрегиона. |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Gennady Lapardin
: Наташа, ни Орды ни Чингисхана во времена Ярославны еще не было// Извините за ошибочное согласие
4 mins
|
If you mean the article, it's not a historical one at all. I used to find out what are these complaints after - Igo - the Empire. The phrase is an idiom
|
1 hr
moaning and groaning
To add to the list of the nice above-mentioned versions, I also do agree that a standard English idiom would be relevant here (by the way, Lingvo 12 gives the following definition - плач Ярославны — lamentations of Jaroslav's daughter (in "The Lay of Knight Igor's Campaign", 12th-century Russian poem) - which is not really applicable for English-speaking audience).
41 mins
farewell lamentation
The Yaroslavna is a dark ages (12th century) protagonist. Her lamentation was said from the wall of an old-slavic fortress at the time of departure of her husband Igor with his friend worriors to war (tax collection) against their enemies neighbors polovtsy (bad tax payers) :) She predicted in her lamentation bad end of Igor (his death from a serpent).
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Note added at 45 mins (2008-03-27 20:16:34 GMT)
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farewell to too optimistic approach/hopes, i think
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-27 20:53:51 GMT) Post-grading
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heartbreaking lamentation
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Note added at 45 mins (2008-03-27 20:16:34 GMT)
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farewell to too optimistic approach/hopes, i think
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-27 20:53:51 GMT) Post-grading
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heartbreaking lamentation
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Olga Cartlidge
: On reflection, I have to agree with Mark that the reference is ironic and refers to a list of excuses that the speaker comes up with, so I would go along with his suggestion. Sorry to be so confusing : - )) (I should ve considered the context first !!!)
37 mins
|
Thanks, Olga !
|
+1
1 hr
long lament
After the obligatory long lament about how the Far East is too remote...
I don't see any point in invoking Yaroslavna, who would not be recognized, and our famous weepers in English lit don't quite fit in (Hecuba's tears, for example). But I think something simple, like "long lament", is preferable to overdoing it with "whining", "wailing", "mourning", etc.; nor is in a list of a lot of different grievances: it's just a drawn-out lament on an oft-repeated theme.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-27 20:57:04 GMT) Post-grading
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"...nor is it..." I meant.
And I see I answered after the case was closed. Still.
I don't see any point in invoking Yaroslavna, who would not be recognized, and our famous weepers in English lit don't quite fit in (Hecuba's tears, for example). But I think something simple, like "long lament", is preferable to overdoing it with "whining", "wailing", "mourning", etc.; nor is in a list of a lot of different grievances: it's just a drawn-out lament on an oft-repeated theme.
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-27 20:57:04 GMT) Post-grading
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"...nor is it..." I meant.
And I see I answered after the case was closed. Still.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Olga Cartlidge
32 mins
|
Thanks. And by putting in "obligatory" one would capture the sarcasm.
|
1 hr
Portnoy's complaint
A belated suggestion. And while we all study "Плач Ярославны" in school, I have no idea how popular Philip Roth is in England.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Rachel Douglas
: Umm... That might be a stretch, since P's complaint is defined, in the novel: "A disorder in which strongly-felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature"/i.e., NOT плач, but недуг!
3 hrs
|
I doubt that the subject matter of complaints is of much importance here. After all, Ярославна didn't decry lack of tighter relations of Russian Far East with the rest of the country either.
|
Discussion
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/CT-prolog-para.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/CT-prolog-para.html