musical text vs музыкальный текст

English translation: musical composition/melodic lines

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:musical text vs музыкальный текст
English translation:musical composition/melodic lines
Entered by: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.

11:14 Jan 21, 2018
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Music
Russian term or phrase: musical text vs музыкальный текст
Is "musical text" a valid translation of the Russian collocation "музыкальный текст"?
Meaning exclusively a musical score written using musical notation, not a text written with letters like a libretto, lyrics, etc.
It seems (to me as to a non-native English speaker) that the word "text" means only a piece of writing with letters.

It's intended for translation of the phrase (into English):
"Симметрия поэтического и музыкального текстов в mélodie Prison Габриэля Форе"
->
"Symmetry of the poetic and musical texts in the mélodie Prison by Gabriel Fauré"

Here, as you see, the verbal and musical texts are meant to be distinctively different.
Rus_Land
Ukraine
Local time: 02:32
musical composition/melodic lines
Explanation:
The symmetry of the poetic text and the musical composition in Gabriel Faure's melodie "Prison"....

Musical composition can refer to an original piece of music, either a song or an instrumental music piece, the structure of a musical piece, or the process of creating or writing a new song or piece of music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_composition


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The symmetry of the poetic text and the melodic lines...

melodic line
a succession of notes forming a distinctive sequence
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/melodic line
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Selected response from:

Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
United States
Local time: 19:32
Grading comment
Wery useful answer and - especially! - the following discussion and commentaries. Thank you, Frank!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4music
Michael Moskowitz
3 +1score
James Duncan
3 +1musical aspect
spanruss
3musical composition/melodic lines
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
4 -1music(al) note (text) / music text
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
3 -1lead sheet
Vladyslav Golovaty


Discussion entries: 11





  

Answers


25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
score


Explanation:
I agree that musical text does not cover the Russian phrase accurately. Score is the obvious translation but won't fit in the sentence. My suggestion for the whole sentence to get around the problem is:
"Poetic symmetry of words and music in the mélodie Prison by Gabriel Fauré"

James Duncan
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: "symmetry of words and music" would be a good translation, but in this context it doesn't work, because the symmetry. in fact, is at the level of syllables, not words. Likewise, "score" doesn't work in this context, in my opinion, because it's only printed "stuff", signs on a sheet of paper, and it's evidently not symmetric to the letters of the poem. It seems that the only way is "symmetry of the poetic text and the music", or "the musical composition", as Frank Szmulowicz suggests.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  The Misha: There are actally two standard terms for this that are universally understood: score and lyrics. Why reinvent the bycicle?
37 mins

agree  Jack Doughty
41 mins

disagree  spanruss: The "score" is the totality of a piece of written music. Seems like here they are referring to two individual aspects of a piece of music.
5 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
musical composition/melodic lines


Explanation:
The symmetry of the poetic text and the musical composition in Gabriel Faure's melodie "Prison"....

Musical composition can refer to an original piece of music, either a song or an instrumental music piece, the structure of a musical piece, or the process of creating or writing a new song or piece of music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_composition


cccccccccccccccccccccccccc
The symmetry of the poetic text and the melodic lines...

melodic line
a succession of notes forming a distinctive sequence
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/melodic line
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc



Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
United States
Local time: 19:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Wery useful answer and - especially! - the following discussion and commentaries. Thank you, Frank!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Your variant is the closest, but I woul like to keep "text" in some way :). Is "musical textture" suitable for this context? How does it sound to a native English speaker? "symmetry of the poetic text and the musical texture"?

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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
musical aspect


Explanation:
To me, this seems to be a comparison between the "poetic and musical aspects" of the piece itself.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-01-21 16:59:17 GMT)
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Or some synonym of aspect, e.g., quality, nature, etc.

spanruss
United States
Local time: 18:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, you can interpret it this way. I liked your interpretation, really :) But my question was whether "musical text" (literally), as a word for word translation of "музыкальный текст", is a valid collocation or not. It seems that it is (I found it googling different "musical texts" :)), and it means a piece of writing in musical notation. What is perfect for me!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Samantha Payn
1 day 19 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
lead sheet


Explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sheet
to show many musical elements
ноты music, printed music; (непереплетенные) sheet music играть без нот — to play without music играть по нотам — to read music, to play from music

Vladyslav Golovaty
Ukraine
Local time: 02:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 9

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Samantha Payn: "lead sheet" is a term used in many forms of "popular" music (jazz, blues, rock etc) but is not at all appropriate for this context of Faure's work.
1 day 15 hrs
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
music(al) note (text) / music text


Explanation:
music(al) note (text) / music text

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Note added at 21 mins (2018-01-21 11:35:17 GMT)
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OR Just "notation"
that works

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Note added at 21 mins (2018-01-21 11:35:33 GMT)
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Or "musical notation"

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Note added at 17 hrs (2018-01-22 04:47:39 GMT)
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https://fsymbols.com/computer/music-note/
Music note texts or music notes texts

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Note added at 17 hrs (2018-01-22 04:48:16 GMT)
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or Music symbols texts

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Note added at 17 hrs (2018-01-22 05:08:36 GMT)
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Or musical notes text

Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 06:32
Native speaker of: Native in UzbekUzbek, Native in KirghizKirghiz
Notes to answerer
Asker: "music text" does not exist. Just google it :) But "musical text" seems a valid collocation


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  The Misha: This is not how it is said in English. A note refers to a single sound or its graphic representation. What "music text" is, I have no idea.
47 mins
  -> Yes, you are right.
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1 day 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
music


Explanation:
"Symmetry of the lyrics and music in the mélodie Prison by Gabriel Fauré\"

Michael Moskowitz
Local time: 19:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: It seems that the word "lyrics" isn't used for the texts of the ART songs of the 19th century (like melodie genre) that were written on verses of many celebrated poets. May be it's more appropriate for popular songs or folk songs of our time.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  spanruss: Possibly. If the composer mirrors the actual meaning of the lyrics through music, e.g., a mention of a train is followed by a whistle, etc., then I would agree. Perhaps someone familiar with this piece of music could further clarify.
1 day 9 hrs
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