This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Russian to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Psychology / cluster analysis of population characteristics
Russian term or phrase:западающая шкала
This can't be "falling" scales or indicators or whatever, since the study is cross-sectional, not longitudinal, and we have no idea what the subjects' previous scores were on the surveys they have been given. For the first one, below, I just wrote "below average indicators," but after that, I got stuck.
В профиле имеются как западающие показатели (ниже средних), так и выступающие за пределы границ, выстроенных по средним значениям...
Западающими в первом профиле являются шкалы 6 (коммуникативные способности), 9 (моделирование), 12 (гибкость), 13 (самостоятельность)....
В отличие от студентов первой подгруппы, в этом кластере все значения, даже по западающим шкалам, находятся в диапазоне выше среднего....
Обобщенный графический профиль студентов, отнесенных нами в ходе проведения кластерного анализа к четвертой подгруппе, имеет несимметричный вид с выступающими краями и западающими показателями.
Yes, Frank, your idea is great. I would use it - graphically, test results are reflected by a pentadecagon, with its vertices representing the mean score obtained by using a particular scale. Some vertices are concave and can occur below the mean scale score (5), etc... Of course, this is just a suggestion, and it is the Susan's choice what will fit the best.
Thanks Marlin for your brilliant explanation, and to everybody else for your helpful comments, links, etc. I now know, to borrow from Dylan Thomas, "everything about the wasp except why." I think am going to use the more pedestrian "relatively low," while appending a comment to the authors about other possibilities. I don't think I can venture too far afield from what they wrote. (The version I'm editing has four authors, not just the one in the published edition that Irina posted. It seems to be basically the same article, although the headline is different--another reason I didn't find it online.)
It does not matter how you call these things - pits, troughs, etc. It makes no sense to speak here in terms of mathematics/statistics. The author is not a mathematician, she is a psychologist. That's it. I just tried to interpret her idea about the graphs and used geological terminology (pits, hills, peaks) because the author doesn't think in terms of mathematics, but in terms of psychology. If you look at the graphs, you can see that they look as a polygon (2-dimensional representation) or a polyhedron (3D representation if you rotate a graph around one of the axes). A polyhedron has facets, and each figure in the article presents 10 faceted surfaces, one of which is the mean score surface, plus the mean experimental score surface. When you go along the experimental score surface, you see that it comes up and down relative to the mean score surface, and these look like peaks and pits on the mean score surface. Again, the authors does not think in terms of mathematics. This is the point. I am trying to explain what she most likely means when speaks about "западающая шкала". And it is your choice how to call these peaks and troughs.
Here's the bit I mentioned earlier: "Для студентов, попавших во второй кластер (подгруппу), характерен достаточно несимметричный, угловатый рисунок гистограммы, указывающий на несоразмерность ряда значений (рисунок 3). Однако, в отличие от студентов первой подгруппы, в этом кластере все значения, даже по западающим шкалам, находятся в диапазоне выше среднего."
So even though they go down, they are not below the average.
Yes, that's what I did!// Sorry, I didn't see your link. Indeed, you got it! I must be working from an earlier draft or something, because the phrase I searched for ("В профиле имеются как западающие показатели...", my first one above) did not appear. Thanks a lot!
I've never heard the term "pits" in the context of statistics. Googling for the two words, with "cluster analysis" and minus "geography" and a few other things, I'm coming up only with physical structures (landforms, olive pits, etc.) for "pits." Did you make up the phrase, or is it something I don't know about? The image does fit the case of these cluster analysis graphs.
I couldn't find the Russian version of this online, either on Google or Yandex. You must know some searching tricks that I don't. I have the Russian text, obviously, but I would have posted it to show colleagues the graphics, if I had been able to find it!// That said, I cannot rewrite the article in the way you suggest, although I can suggest your formulation to the authors.
Looking at Figures presented in the article, I see that the authors are not correct when they say "западающая шкала". Obviously, they say about a mean score attributed to a student subgroup by using one of 15 scales. All these are 10-grade scales, with a mean score of 5. Schematically, the scales are represented by 15 radii with a common origin. The mean scores 5 are interlinked, forming a circle. The experimental mean scores are plotted on appropriate scales and, being interlinked, form a loop (profile). The loop, when intersecting a certain scale, occurs below (западает) or above (выступает) the mean score (circle) 5. Thus, it is not correct to say "шкала западае/выступает", but "среднее значение параметра западает/выступает". So, I would say "The graphical profile of student subgroup 1 (Fig.2) has pits and peaks relative to the mean scale score (5). In the first subgroup profile, pits occur on scales 6, 9, 12, and 13".
вот это совершенный парадокс: все значения, даже по западающим шкалам, находятся в диапазоне выше среднего ?=все значения, даже для показателей, по которым наблюдается отставание (в других группах??), находятся в диапазоне выше среднего Лучше уточнить это у самого автора
Кажется суть не в том, что они ниже других, а в том, что ниже "границ, выстроенных по средним значениям...". Хотя, если говорить о "западающих" показателях, то это должны быть показатели, по которым наблюдается отставание. см. https://tinyurl.com/y7ddtz34
Их никто не научил по-другому. Не было руководителя, который бы объяснил как, или он сам такой был... В вузах писать статьи не учат. Мне периодически приходят на рецензию статьи в том же стиле, не часто, но бывает.
You are the best judge as a native speaker so maybe you could weasel out of this mess with "downward scale" without fault? I am not sure, especially after looking at the graphs...
I just got to a section where scales 2 and 9 are not below the average, but just lower than the rest of the scales (of which there are 15). So I'm thinking "relatively low" is what makes the most sense. (Why do people write this way???)
на мой взгляд, это "лабораторный жаргон" и речь идет о показателях (даже там где упоминаются шкалы), значения которых ниже среднего уровня Т.е. автор, когда пишет о показателе, который оценивали по определенной шкале, пишет просто шкала. Согласен, что "русский" здесь еще тот (
I think you're probably right. Indeed, the quality of the Russian throughout strikes me as poor, although I am not the best judge. The author has translated her own article, which I am editing; for this term she used "dropped," but that is certainly wrong. Dropped values would mean scores that had been eliminated from the calculations, which is not the case.
Susan, you provided very clear context and, strictly speaking, this is how the author defines a scale that reflects those same below average indicators. "Западающая шкала" is but poor ("compressed and simplified") Russian as it makes no sense as a separate term but can still be understood by a Russian reader in the meaning I described. Again, just sloppy. English needs more words here, which is rarely a case:-)
There is nothing in the article about the scales being normalized, adjusted, or sliding. Each scale represents a different personality characteristic, and the subjects are rated on how they score on each one (see second example, in my posting). The cluster diagram is one of these things that looks like a spider web, with the scores graphed around a center point.
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
