всебесущий

English translation: thing-in-itself Idea / Idea in itself

13:04 Sep 23, 2018
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Science - Psychology
Russian term or phrase: всебесущий
From a book on the sociology of thinking, discussing the interaction between ideas and the material world:

Страшно подумать,—говорил Гейне,—когда созданные нами тела требуют от нас душу. Но еще страшнее, когда вы создали душу и она требует от вас тела и преследует вас этими требованиями. Мысль стремится стать делом, слово хочет стать плотью. в этом смысле мир действительно есть внешнее проявление слова! Эти столь мистически звучащие слова ничего загадочного, разумеется, не содержат, если только откинуть поэтическую вольность и под «миром» понимать мир промышленный, мир хозяйства, мир культуры и общественных отношений, постоянно созидаемый самим человеком, а не природу вообще, в которой Гегель, напр., хотел видеть проявление Абсолютного Духа, всебесущей Идеи или Слова божия.
Jeff Skinner
Sweden
Local time: 05:25
English translation:thing-in-itself Idea / Idea in itself
Explanation:
it's definitely not a mistype, but the word is kind of invented by the author.
It refers to one of the key concepts of Kantian philosophy, the Thing in itself, an essence of the object irrespective of the third-party observer.
Hegel is one of the most difficult-to-understand philosophers, and one has to be familiar with his work to convey the meaning properly, but всебесущий definitely refers to "сущий в себе" or "существующий в себе", ie irrespective of the outside world. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing-in-itself
I guess Hegel drawn upon Kant's works to some extent in his concept of Absolute Idea.


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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-09-23 15:11:49 GMT)
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Well, I've been just told that Hegel did not draw upon Kant's works in his concept of Absolute Idea. Sorry old mate. But anyway, it does not change the sense.
What he's trying to say is that this Idea exists in itself, it does not depend in any way on external circumstances, not affected by them, it is self-sufficient, it is absolute. And yes, it is manifestation of "Absolute Spirit, the Idea in Itself or the Word of God", so second option would be closer to truth.
Selected response from:

Vladimir Alekseev, MCIL
Russian Federation
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3thing-in-itself Idea / Idea in itself
Vladimir Alekseev, MCIL
4 +1noumenal
Michael Korovkin
5matter in itself
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
4eternal
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Summary of reference entries provided
Ding an sich
Susan Welsh

Discussion entries: 14





  

Answers


46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
thing-in-itself Idea / Idea in itself


Explanation:
it's definitely not a mistype, but the word is kind of invented by the author.
It refers to one of the key concepts of Kantian philosophy, the Thing in itself, an essence of the object irrespective of the third-party observer.
Hegel is one of the most difficult-to-understand philosophers, and one has to be familiar with his work to convey the meaning properly, but всебесущий definitely refers to "сущий в себе" or "существующий в себе", ie irrespective of the outside world. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing-in-itself
I guess Hegel drawn upon Kant's works to some extent in his concept of Absolute Idea.


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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-09-23 15:11:49 GMT)
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Well, I've been just told that Hegel did not draw upon Kant's works in his concept of Absolute Idea. Sorry old mate. But anyway, it does not change the sense.
What he's trying to say is that this Idea exists in itself, it does not depend in any way on external circumstances, not affected by them, it is self-sufficient, it is absolute. And yes, it is manifestation of "Absolute Spirit, the Idea in Itself or the Word of God", so second option would be closer to truth.

Vladimir Alekseev, MCIL
Russian Federation
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Olga Sinitsyna: Nice guess
15 mins
  -> Спасибо, Ольга!

agree  IrinaN
40 mins
  -> Спасибо, Ирина!

agree  Susan Welsh: Sounds reasonable (but I don't understand what lamps have to do with it ("Лучше искать под фонарем, а не там, где потерял.")//I know. I was curious about the idiom! It seems counterintuitive.
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Susan! I was referring to the possible logic of the gentleman who supposedly replaced an unknown word with another one while doing OCR : )
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
matter in itself


Explanation:
In Hegel's works you may notice:
Matter in Itself / Matter Within Self в себе сущий
Being in Itself / Being Within Self в себе бытие




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Note added at 1 hr (2018-09-23 14:22:56 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1440&b...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-09-23 15:24:09 GMT)
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In context it is coming before "idea", so:
matter in itself idea / idea in itself / matter within self idea


Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 09:25
Native speaker of: Native in UzbekUzbek, Native in KirghizKirghiz
PRO pts in category: 8
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
noumenal


Explanation:
... to keep it an ajective rather than going into the thing-in-itself thing :)))

Michael Korovkin
Italy
Local time: 05:25
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Susan Welsh: Sounds reasonable (for those who know what "noumenal" means, which probably includes readers of this book)
1 hr
  -> Hi Susan and thanks. Incidentally, it takes all my self-discipline to resist conveying what the term "vsebesuschij" invokes in MY immature little mind!!!
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
eternal


Explanation:
eternal idea (perpetual, continuous, ceaseless)
Please, see here Eng. http://culturalstudiesnow.blogspot.com/2017/03/hegel-on-abso...
Russian: https://pbd.su/wp-content/uploads/Наука-Логики.pdf

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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-09-23 18:27:59 GMT)
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здесь речь о божественной природе,
Три формы, в которых осуществляется божественная природа, мыслятся у
Гегеля как три основополагающих момента соотносящегося с собой
понятия, – всеобщее, особенное и единичное, в которых идея переходит
из формы в себе сущего духа (Логика), отрицая
себя как вне себя сущий в природе, в форму для себя сущего духа (Философия духа ): «вечное в себе и у себя бытие, форма всеобщности;
форма явления, партикуляризации, бытие для другого ; форма возвращения
из явления в самого себя, абсолютная единичность» http://scjournal.ru/articles/issn_1997-292X_2013_1-2_35.pdf

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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-09-23 18:28:57 GMT)
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For example, God, the Father (Unique nature, universal, eternal, creator of the nature etc.-себе-сущее) created the Nature (вне-себя сущее).

Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 09:25
Native speaker of: Native in UzbekUzbek, Native in KirghizKirghiz
PRO pts in category: 8
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Reference comments


1 hr
Reference: Ding an sich

Reference information:
This seems to be translated as вещь в себе, вещь сама по себе, или ноумен, so I am not sure whether Vladimir Alekseev is right. I don't know enough about Kant or Hegel to be sure.


    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%89%D1%8C_%D0%B2_%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B5
Susan Welsh
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
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