кавказец

English translation: man from the Caucasus

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:кавказец
English translation:man from the Caucasus
Entered by: Robert Donahue (X)

14:22 Apr 29, 2005
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Russian term or phrase: кавказец
В смысле выходца с Кавказа. Как это перевести, чтобы не путалось с Caucasian в смысле просто европейца?
Контекстная фраза:
скинхеды с особой жестокостью избивали кавказцев


Кстати, затрудняюсь в классификации этого вопроса, если будут идеи, куда его отнести - действуйте! И заранее спасибо!
Natalie
Poland
Local time: 21:16
man from the Caucasus
Explanation:
I am not sure if there is a single word that conveys this Natalie. Best of luck!

... An agile young man from the Caucasus has wrapped his knee around an enchanting ... The man from the Caucasus slides on the soles of his pointed shoes, ...
... Once there was a party at my girl-friend's house who recently got married to a man from the Caucasus. He was bright but hot tempered and patriarchally ...
... Just days after Kurshida's murder, a man from the Caucasus was beaten to death in a St. Petersburg railway station. In the same month, a Jewish cemetery ...
... follows the fortunes of Merlin Prester Beg, a young and inquisitive man from the Caucasus, as he explores what he calls the 'great mystery of the West'. ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 49 mins (2005-04-29 21:12:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Levan, you are both right and wrong. YOU understand the term perfectly well. The point is how to translate кавказец so that it\'s understood by all. The meaning of the word \"Caucasian\" is too easily confused. White people in the US put \"Caucasian\" down as their race. Reading this sentence, the average white guy in Mud Lick, Alabama is going to scratch his head in wonder over why skinheads are attacking white people. The point here is not точность а понятность.
Selected response from:

Robert Donahue (X)
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody who participated in the discussion! I choosed not to add any words absent in the original (I mean the word "ethnic").

Документ сам по себе написан очень простым языком (и изобилует орфографическими ошибками), это заявление человека о предоставлении политического убежища в США (с достаточно подробным изложением причин этого обращения). Так что Роберт совершенно прав: все должно быть предельно понятно для тех, кто будет это заявление читать.

Еще раз огромное спасибо всем!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7I don't think the use of Caucasians would be too confusing.
Jack slep
2 +9man from the Caucasus
Robert Donahue (X)
3 +5Caucasus ethnic persons
Larissa Dinsley
4 +3Caucasian
GaryG
4 +3people of the Caucusus region
Mihailolja
4 +2people from Caucasis
Irene N
3 +2a man from the Caucasian region
Andrey Belousov (X)
3 +2transcaucasians
mk_lab
5 -1People from Caucasia
R. E. M
3 -2"mountain people"
Mikhail Kropotov


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
кавказец
people from Caucasis


Explanation:
I guess

Irene N
United States
Local time: 14:16
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sara Noss: from the Caucasus
3 mins
  -> Точно. Зарапортовалась. Спасибо!

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Caucasian
5 hrs

agree  Larissa Dinsley
19 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
кавказец
a man from the Caucasian region


Explanation:
I think

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2005-04-29 14:27:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In your text > people from the Caucasian region/of the Caucasian origin



Andrey Belousov (X)
United States
Local time: 15:16
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert Donahue (X)
1 hr
  -> Thanks!

agree  Angeliki Kotsidou
4 hrs
  -> Thanks!

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Caucasian
5 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
кавказец
"mountain people"


Explanation:
"mountain people" (from the Caucasus - по желанию)

Mikhail Kropotov
Russian Federation
Local time: 22:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 55

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kirill Semenov: heh, "a highlander" ;-)
3 hrs
  -> Мне кажется, это здесь главнее. Дать понять, как к нам относятся в реальном сегодняшнем обществе, а не как мы классифицированы в книжке по антропологии.

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Миша, нет, просто "кавказцев" без разбору, как водится... Caucasian
5 hrs
  -> Кхм, я не понял мысли. С радостью соглашусь, если пойму.

disagree  R. E. M: What "The Caucasus" is, is a large region between the Black and the Caspian sea. There certainly is a mnt. range there, but there is no compelling evidence that someone they beat up was specifically from that mnt. range in Caucasia.
9 hrs
  -> Thanx. Okay, but that is not relevant to the way the expression might be perceived by the readers. See Dorene's comment. And btw, I'm of Caucasian origin - I am aware of the geography and some of the history :)

disagree  Dorene Cornwell: all kinds of wrong connotations and possible misunderstandings of this in Englsih
10 hrs
  -> Okay, thank you.

disagree  sergey (X): agree with dorene, besides some areas there are not that mountainous anyway
1 day 6 mins
  -> Yes, this is too slangy. Thanks Sergey
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
кавказец
people of the Caucusus region


Explanation:
;-)


    Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Caucasian
Mihailolja
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in UkrainianUkrainian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sara Noss: also good, but 'Caucasus'. :)
4 mins
  -> Oops, keyboard slipped! thanks......

agree  Angeliki Kotsidou
4 hrs
  -> Efharisto Angeliki

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Caucasian
5 hrs
  -> ah! keyboard!

agree  Larysa Shell: I agree but word was misspelled "Caucasus", as was mentioned above.
8 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Caucasian


Explanation:
It's the same word, and it will be clear from context that one is not talking about "white people".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 14:51:41 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/Russia3.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~jimmasters3/geographical-dictiona...

GaryG
Local time: 15:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Robert Donahue (X): I don't know Gary. This really depends on the audience being written for don't you agree? If it were for the people responding here today then of course there would be no need for further clarification. However, if you're writing for a general audience...
1 hr
  -> But I don't see how one could confuse this with the racial category given any context

agree  Levan Namoradze: No Robert. This is not from Anthropology, since skinheads do not use fight with a 'white man' i.e. a 'caucasian' i.e a Indo-European. They just fight with Caucasians i.e. men from Caucasus.
5 hrs

agree  Kirill Semenov
5 hrs

agree  Shane London
8 hrs

neutral  sergey (X): rather confusing
23 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
Caucasus ethnic persons


Explanation:
TAKAS - English
... a «Caucasus ethnic person» sitting in front of him, what’s more, it was a
Muslim who just came «from down there». From the world that he never ...
www.takas.lt/english/forum/ viewtopic.php?topic=122&forum=6&12 - 48k - Cached - Similar pages

::KAVKAZ CENTER::news::facts::analysis
... But there was a face of a «Caucasus ethnic person» sitting in front of him,
what’s more, it was a Muslim who just came «from down there». ...
www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/article.php?id=2075 - 42k - Supplemental Result


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 15:41:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How about \"Caucasus natives\"? Some good references here:

Welcome to Ccharm >> Helping the children of Chechnya
... it be in film, books or the theater -- and Caucasus natives today fit this
... thought all Caucasus natives were artistic, charming and sexy and from ...
www.ccharm.org/news/article54.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Review of Tombstone of Russian Power
... early eighteenth century the Cossacks there were still independent and probably
numbered less than the North Caucasus natives in Russian service there. ...
www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewsw21.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] The experience of international community at the outset of a new ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... Caucasian cultural societies joined by descendants of the North Caucasus
natives eager to. preserve their cultural distinctions (as was the case at the ...
www.da.mod.uk/CSRC/documents/CEE/ G93%20(Security%20in%20the%20Black%20Sea%20Region/G93.chap2 - Similar pages

Institute for War and Peace Reporting
... Already Russia has seen an upsurge in skinhead violence, often directed against
Caucasus natives, in recent months. Two Azerbaijanis are reported to ...
www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/ cau/cau_200210_153_4_eng.txt - 64k -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-30 01:46:28 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Наталия, ну и бурю Вы подняли!

Я бы хотела добавить несколько замечаний на комментарии коллег к моему ответу:
I deliberately used \"Caucaus ethnic\" vs \"ethnic Caucaisan\" as I have found that the latter is used in the same context as \"Caucasian\", eg.www.gcte.net/Join/join1.htm
Therefore, I thought it would be more clear to stick to word \"Caucasus\".

Aslo, I would prefer - in your context (as it is obviously not an anthropology :) piece but a popular article - to use to \"Caucasus natives\") because the use of Caucasus vs Caucasian excludes a possible misunderstanding and the word \"native\" is fairly widely used in this context not making it sound too scientific.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-30 09:55:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Наталия, вот мне все неймется и захотелось обратиться к первоисточникам - заглянула я в свой Оксфордский словарь и увидела, что как существительное слово Caucasian употребляется ТОЛЬКО в значении человек Caucasian race. Так что испльзование Caucasian как существительного в вашем тексте сразу отпадает. Как прилагательное, только третье значение дается как \"3) relating to the region of the Caucasus in SE Europe\". В зависимости от вашей аудитории, может быть не верно понято, поэтому я бы на Вашем месте воздержалась от его использования.

Чисто интуитивно мне не нравилось и мое предоложение насчет \"Caucausus ethnic\" а почему прояснилось когда наткнулась на эту ссылку:

\"Кавказец\" - все больше становится идентичностью, нагруженной не этническим или культурным, но ПОЛИТИЧЕСКИМ содержанием...\" http://www.inci.ru/vestniki/vest07.html

Это как евреев в бывшем Союзе считали национальностью. В общем, оттуда ноги растут.

Native м.б. неплохое решение (по аналогии с native American), но в английском звучит несколько архаично.

People (men) from Caucasus, предложенное коллегами выше, тоже ложится в контекст хотя, конечно, и не передает всех нюансов (эти люди могут быть москвичами, а человек с Кавказа может быть и русским, по большому счету), но может быть наилучшим выходом из Вашей ситуации.

Кстати, мне почему-то кажется, что имеются в виду \"people from North Caucasus\"?

Ну вот, а теперь пойду к своим баранам, то есть рукояткам и джойстикам - будь они неладны!



Larissa Dinsley
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert Donahue (X): Or as Jack suggested, "ethnic Caucasian".
54 mins
  -> Thank you Robert. I was thinking about it, discovered that in some references "ethnic Caucaisan" is used in the same context as Caucasian, eg.www.gcte.net/Join/join1.htm Therefore, I think it would be more clear to stick to word "Caucasus".

agree  Konstantin Kisin: with Robert especially
59 mins
  -> Thank you Konstantin, see my comments above.

agree  Vladimir Dubisskiy: ethnic Caucasians
1 hr
  -> Thank you Vladimir.

agree  Drunya: С предыдущими соглашателями
1 hr
  -> Thank you Drunya.

agree  Sergei Tumanov
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Sergei.

agree  Svetlana Chekunova
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Svetlana.

agree  Blithe: ethnic Caucasians
3 hrs
  -> Thank you Blithe.

disagree  Levan Namoradze: Нет такой этнической группы в природе. Caucasian правильный ответ.
4 hrs
  -> Thank you Levan. I did not say "group".

disagree  R. E. M: there is no such specific ethnicity.
9 hrs
  -> Thank you Russ, I did not say "specific".
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
I don't think the use of Caucasians would be too confusing.


Explanation:
Examples where there is no confusion (assuming the readers of your translations have neurons in their cranium)
Gangs
... Some consist of African-Americans, Latinos, Skinheads, Caucasians, and Asians.
Some are mixed. A lot of the gangs I've heard about and are friends with, ...
allfreeessays.com/student/Gangs.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

Russian skinheads lose massive fight to Asian men in Moscow metro
... There are up to 50 thousand skinheads in Russia, which is equal to their ...
the Caucasians pulled out knives and used them for their own defense. ...
www.rickross.com/reference/skinheads/skinheads50.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Digital Termpapers: Term Papers on Gangs
... There are many different kind of gangs around: African-Americans, Latinos,
Skinheads, Caucasians, and Asians. Some are mixed. ...
www.digitaltermpapers.com/c542.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Stormfront White Nationalist Community
... of skinheads partook in a racially motivated attack on "ethnic Caucasians".
... "ethnic Caucasians" be white people and if so why would skinheads attack ...
www.stormfront.org/archive/ t-180458Some_clarification_required..html -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-29 15:43:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps \"ethnic Caucasians\" would dispell any doubt about the use of the word

Jack slep
Local time: 15:16
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Irene N: The last option is great., clearly the best. IMHO.
9 mins
  -> Thanks - yes, the last is less ambiguous

agree  Robert Donahue (X): I'd agree wholeheartedly with "ethnic Caucasians". Please refer to my note to Gary for my thinking on the use of "Caucasian" as a stand alone word.
13 mins
  -> Thanks, and I agree with your view (regarding note to Gary)

agree  Kirill Semenov: "ethnic Caucasians" is great
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Kirill

agree  Konstantin Kisin: with ethnic Caucasians
2 hrs
  -> Thanks KK!!

agree  Blithe: ethnic Caucasians
2 hrs
  -> Blithe, thank you

agree  Andrey Belousov (X)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Andrey!

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Great. Both in terms of Anthropology and 'life'. However, Gary answered earlier...+There exists no specific 'Caucasus Ethnic'. I agreed only with 'Caucasian'.
4 hrs
  -> Ethnic is used to distinguish peoples of the Caucasus from members of the white race

agree  Marina Khonina: "ethnic Caucasians". I don't see a problem with "ethnic" here since this is apparently not a scholarly text
1 day 4 hrs
  -> Thank you, Marina!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
кавказец
transcaucasians


Explanation:
Caucasian точно будет воспиринято как "белый"(представитель европеоидной рассы), что(мягко говоря) почти противоположно контексту. Поскольку под "лицами кавказской национальности" подразумеваются исключительно закавказцы, а не жители Ставрополья, Краснодарского края, и т.д. предлагаю сконцентрироваться в этом направлении.

Ethnobarometer Working Paper 2 - Part B
... of immigrants of other nationalities (especially Transcaucasians), ...
borders who have approached the office of the UNHCR in Moscow for assistance, ...
www.cemes.org/current/ethpub/ethnobar/wp2/wp2-b.htm

mk_lab
Ukraine
Local time: 22:16
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andrey Belousov (X): nice approach
3 hrs

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Не совсем, так как мы не знаем, были ли они с Закавказья, или и северного Кавказа.+Никак нет. :-) 'Caucasian Race' да, но не 'Caucasian'.
4 hrs
  -> Леван, безусловно так... Но тут такое нелепое совпадение, что по-английски Caucasian означает представителя европеоидной рассы (белого) без подразделений на регионы. А скинхеды-то как раз это разделение и производят...

agree  Vladimir Glushkov: Судя по замечательной статье-ссылке, да.
7 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +9
кавказец
man from the Caucasus


Explanation:
I am not sure if there is a single word that conveys this Natalie. Best of luck!

... An agile young man from the Caucasus has wrapped his knee around an enchanting ... The man from the Caucasus slides on the soles of his pointed shoes, ...
... Once there was a party at my girl-friend's house who recently got married to a man from the Caucasus. He was bright but hot tempered and patriarchally ...
... Just days after Kurshida's murder, a man from the Caucasus was beaten to death in a St. Petersburg railway station. In the same month, a Jewish cemetery ...
... follows the fortunes of Merlin Prester Beg, a young and inquisitive man from the Caucasus, as he explores what he calls the 'great mystery of the West'. ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 49 mins (2005-04-29 21:12:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Levan, you are both right and wrong. YOU understand the term perfectly well. The point is how to translate кавказец so that it\'s understood by all. The meaning of the word \"Caucasian\" is too easily confused. White people in the US put \"Caucasian\" down as their race. Reading this sentence, the average white guy in Mud Lick, Alabama is going to scratch his head in wonder over why skinheads are attacking white people. The point here is not точность а понятность.

Robert Donahue (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody who participated in the discussion! I choosed not to add any words absent in the original (I mean the word "ethnic").

Документ сам по себе написан очень простым языком (и изобилует орфографическими ошибками), это заявление человека о предоставлении политического убежища в США (с достаточно подробным изложением причин этого обращения). Так что Роберт совершенно прав: все должно быть предельно понятно для тех, кто будет это заявление читать.

Еще раз огромное спасибо всем!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mihailolja
13 mins
  -> Thank you Mihailolja

agree  Marina Davidenko
24 mins
  -> Thank you Marina

agree  Inna Sabia
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Inna

agree  Svetlana Chekunova
3 hrs
  -> Thank you Svetlana

agree  Angeliki Kotsidou
4 hrs
  -> Thank you Angeliki

neutral  Levan Namoradze: Caucasian+Robert, I see. However, in 'your' meaning the 'Caucasian Race' is used. And 'simply' 'Caucasian' means right 'кавказец'.
5 hrs
  -> Not enough room to comment here. Please see my posted response.

agree  Anneta Vysotskaya
5 hrs
  -> Thank you Anneta

agree  Dorene Cornwell
10 hrs
  -> Thank you Dorene

agree  Larissa Dinsley
19 hrs
  -> Thank you Larissa

agree  sergey (X)
1 day 23 mins
  -> Thank you Sergey
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
кавказец
People from Caucasia


Explanation:
simply "caucasian" is perfectly valid though it could indeed be confusing and one may assume it to be anyone of the "white" race. Since they clearly do not mean Scandinavians or Spanish, etc. here, it is best to use a word for specific geogr. location "Caucasia". The self-explanatory term "caucasian", however, which the world uses to describe the white race, is an entirely different subject

R. E. M
Local time: 15:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Levan Namoradze: :-) No, it can not. 'Caucasian Race' & 'Caucasian' are pretty different.
7 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search