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вхождение автономного округа в состав

English translation: The fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of ...

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20:09 Aug 22, 2014
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Law (general) / законодательство
Russian term or phrase: вхождение автономного округа в состав
"вхождение" в следующем контексте:

"Конституционный Суд сформулировал правовую позицию по поводу «противоречия» между принципом равноправия всех субъектов Российской Федерации и фактическим вхождением одних субъектов федерации в состав других" ...
«вхождение автономного округа в состав края, области по смыслу части 4 статьи 66 Конституции Российской Федерации означает такое конституционно - правовое состояние, при котором автономный округ, будучи равноправным субъектом Российской Федерации, одновременно составляет часть другого субъекта Российской Федерации - края или области. Это состояние определяет особенности статуса как автономного округа, так и края, области, в состав которых он входит. Их взаимоотношения отличаются от их отношений с другими субъектами Российской Федерации: "вхождение" предопределяет обязанность органов государственной власти обоих равноправных субъектов Российской Федерации обеспечивать сохранение территориальной целостности и единства в интересах населения края, области»"

Я пытаюсь найти термин для обозначение этого самого "вхождения". В самой К-ции (ст.66(4)) указано следующее: "Отношения автономных округов, входящих в состав края или области, могут регулироваться федеральным законом и договором между органами государственной власти автономного округа и, соответственно, органами государственной власти края или области." Во всех существующих переводах Конституции РФ "входящие" автономные округа обозначаются просто как "within", типа "autonomous okrugs within krais and oblasts ", т.е. понятие "входящий, вхождение" отсутствует. М.б. вхождение - "being part of a krai or an oblast"? "being a constituent of a krai..."? Существует вариант "merging", но он, как мне кажется, здесь не очень уместен.
Заранее большое спасибо!
Maria Klavdieva
Local time: 22:38
English translation:The fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of ...
Explanation:
You need a different construction in English, or you will inevitably give the impression of a new incorporation. Note the use of "forms part of" rather than "is part of".

For something like this I would use okrug and krai (probably capitalised) and not "district" or "region"

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Note added at 13 hrs (2014-08-23 09:35:16 GMT)
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Exactly "krai or oblast"! There are limits, and in some cases you may need to add an explanatory note, but here you wouldn't need one. Reading your sentence again, I'm not so happy about "forming" because it has a hint of действие! I would stick to "that form", which is clearly состояние.

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Note added at 14 hrs (2014-08-23 10:31:37 GMT)
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We are in danger of over-analysing this! It's very clumsy to use a possessive here, and I would prefer to say something like "the fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of a krai or oblast".
Selected response from:

David Knowles
Local time: 19:38
Grading comment
I am extremely grateful to David Knowles for his valuable help.

To The Misha: the lady's intention was not slapping labels. I was looking for an adequate term equivalent to a Russian legislative term used to denote a certain legislative concept.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +2The fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of ...
David Knowles
3 +1inclusion of the Autonomous District
Sofia Gutkin
3 +1Incorporation of an Autonomous District into ...
AKhram


  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Incorporation of an Autonomous District into ...


Explanation:
-

AKhram
Local time: 22:38
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: AKhram, cпасибо, но мне кажется, что incorporation - это действие, а здесь речь идет о состоянии. Тогда уж, скорее, incorporatedness. Я еще думала об integration или being integrated


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Oleg Lozinskiy: https://www.google.ru/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=autonomous d...
10 hrs

neutral  LilianNekipelov: I don't think so--in strictly legal terms.
12 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
inclusion of the Autonomous District


Explanation:
If you wanted to make it a noun, you could rework the whole sentence, and talk about "The XXX Autonomous District that is part of the XXX Region"

Sofia Gutkin
Australia
Local time: 06:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Sofia, thank you for your help. The problem is, I need a noun, a term, as it is this term that is defined and expounded in the Constitutional Court's rulings. The concept of autonomous okrug (constituent entity of the Russian Federation) being part of a krai or an okrug (another constituent entity of the Russian Federation) was a a big issue with the legislators that gave rise to much controversy. What I am trying to do is trying to find a term adequately reflecting this state of being part of a krai, etc.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  LilianNekipelov: Yes, as an option.
10 hrs
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
The fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of ...


Explanation:
You need a different construction in English, or you will inevitably give the impression of a new incorporation. Note the use of "forms part of" rather than "is part of".

For something like this I would use okrug and krai (probably capitalised) and not "district" or "region"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2014-08-23 09:35:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Exactly "krai or oblast"! There are limits, and in some cases you may need to add an explanatory note, but here you wouldn't need one. Reading your sentence again, I'm not so happy about "forming" because it has a hint of действие! I would stick to "that form", which is clearly состояние.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2014-08-23 10:31:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

We are in danger of over-analysing this! It's very clumsy to use a possessive here, and I would prefer to say something like "the fact that the autonomous okrug forms part of a krai or oblast".

David Knowles
Local time: 19:38
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 521
Grading comment
I am extremely grateful to David Knowles for his valuable help.

To The Misha: the lady's intention was not slapping labels. I was looking for an adequate term equivalent to a Russian legislative term used to denote a certain legislative concept.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, David, I absolutely agree with you on both issues. I never use ''district" or "region", only krai, okrug, oblast, etc. Therefore it would be "the Constitutional Court's stance on autonomous okrugs forming part of a krai or an oblast." Do you agree?

Asker: David, I am very grateful for you help. You are quite right but, in this case, вхождение is mentioned in several Constitutional Court rulings as a noun/subject(forming/being part of) rather than as an adjective/definition ("autonomous okrug (or constituent entity of the federation) that forms part of..."). This is exactly why I was thinking about "being part of" because it does not hint at any action. But I think that "forming part of" in this context is OK too. What would you say?

Asker: I meant "autonomous okrug's forming part of" rather than "autonomous okrug forming part of"

Asker: Thank you very much, it was very helpful


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Olga Sinitsyna
4 hrs

agree  The Misha: That was my own 1st thought- that you need to rephrase using a clause here to make it sound English enough,but the lady seems to be looking for a noun that could be used throughout.There is no such noun here.English isn't all that big on slapping labels
5 hrs
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