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знаковые средства

English translation: sign media

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:знаковые средства
English translation:sign media
Entered by: [Removed name]
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

19:59 Jan 18, 2002
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Science
Russian term or phrase: знаковые средства
психология, лингвистика, Выготский, Эльконин
James Walker
Local time: 14:45
sign instruments/tools/apparatus
Explanation:
sign instruments/tools/apparatus

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Note added at 2002-01-18 20:32:48 (GMT)
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Vygotsky believed that \"Students must have activities that create a context and provide expert interaction. There are many instructional strategies that can meet these standards. Students can SEE THE MODEL of how to reach the appropriate solution, get an expert to assist in finding a solution, and the expert can monitor the student’s progress.\"

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/education/eflt/vyg.html

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Note added at 2002-01-18 20:32:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Vygotsky believed that \"Students must have activities that create a context and provide expert interaction. There are many instructional strategies that can meet these standards. Students can SEE THE MODEL of how to reach the appropriate solution, get an expert to assist in finding a solution, and the expert can monitor the student’s progress.\"

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/education/eflt/vyg.html

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Note added at 2002-01-18 21:09:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After reviewing some Vygotsky\'s theoretical concepts, I believe that he correct translation of this term is \"SIGNS.\" He was using the term \"SIGNS\"along with the term \"language\", for example: \"The learning of language (or signs) is brought about by social processes, and language or signs ultimately make thought possible.\" This suggests that he used the term \"SIGNS\" to name a certain form of communication, in addition to language communication.
Selected response from:

[Removed name]
Local time: 14:45
Grading comment
Thank you to everyone who answered. Vygotsky is entirely new to me, but I see that some of you have fond memories of him. On the other hand, I had the advantage of reading the whole article (by E. A. Bugrimenko), which was no great pleasure, but I do get paid for it.

About the third or fourth time знаковые средства came up, I began to worry that it might be some important, well-known linguistic concept with a generally accepted fixed English translation, but I see from your answers that that is not the case. The possibilities I tried before I got desperate enough to ask for help were "sign means," "sign tools" and "sign media."

"Sign means" is semantically fine, but in English it sounds awkward and confusing. "Sign tools" is alright, but then what about орудие, which appears fairly often in the article. "Sign mediation" is an excellent concept, знаковое опосредствование. I take it to mean mediation by means of signs (by sign means!). If signs are a means of mediation, obviously they are media. So, "sign media" seems not incorrect, and that is what I finally used.

I have no strenuous objection to simply saying "sign" for знаковое средство. However, in translation I like to assume that the author of the source material is making a good effort to convey some meaning, although it was very hard to discern what possible thought lay behind the jumble of words in this article. So, if he wanted to say sign, why not just знак? As I have said before, translation is always subjective.

Thank you all for your help.

Jim
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3sign instruments/tools/apparatus[Removed name]
4 +4Sign mediation
Natalia Bearden
4 +2sign language
Victor Yatsishin
4 +1sign means
Olga Simon


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
sign instruments/tools/apparatus


Explanation:
sign instruments/tools/apparatus

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-18 20:32:48 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Vygotsky believed that \"Students must have activities that create a context and provide expert interaction. There are many instructional strategies that can meet these standards. Students can SEE THE MODEL of how to reach the appropriate solution, get an expert to assist in finding a solution, and the expert can monitor the student’s progress.\"

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/education/eflt/vyg.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-18 20:32:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Vygotsky believed that \"Students must have activities that create a context and provide expert interaction. There are many instructional strategies that can meet these standards. Students can SEE THE MODEL of how to reach the appropriate solution, get an expert to assist in finding a solution, and the expert can monitor the student’s progress.\"

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/education/eflt/vyg.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-18 21:09:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After reviewing some Vygotsky\'s theoretical concepts, I believe that he correct translation of this term is \"SIGNS.\" He was using the term \"SIGNS\"along with the term \"language\", for example: \"The learning of language (or signs) is brought about by social processes, and language or signs ultimately make thought possible.\" This suggests that he used the term \"SIGNS\" to name a certain form of communication, in addition to language communication.

[Removed name]
Local time: 14:45
Native speaker of: Native in SlovakSlovak
PRO pts in pair: 32
Grading comment
Thank you to everyone who answered. Vygotsky is entirely new to me, but I see that some of you have fond memories of him. On the other hand, I had the advantage of reading the whole article (by E. A. Bugrimenko), which was no great pleasure, but I do get paid for it.

About the third or fourth time знаковые средства came up, I began to worry that it might be some important, well-known linguistic concept with a generally accepted fixed English translation, but I see from your answers that that is not the case. The possibilities I tried before I got desperate enough to ask for help were "sign means," "sign tools" and "sign media."

"Sign means" is semantically fine, but in English it sounds awkward and confusing. "Sign tools" is alright, but then what about орудие, which appears fairly often in the article. "Sign mediation" is an excellent concept, знаковое опосредствование. I take it to mean mediation by means of signs (by sign means!). If signs are a means of mediation, obviously they are media. So, "sign media" seems not incorrect, and that is what I finally used.

I have no strenuous objection to simply saying "sign" for знаковое средство. However, in translation I like to assume that the author of the source material is making a good effort to convey some meaning, although it was very hard to discern what possible thought lay behind the jumble of words in this article. So, if he wanted to say sign, why not just знак? As I have said before, translation is always subjective.

Thank you all for your help.

Jim

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tatiana Neroni: Signs sounds right to me, too (among other things suggested here).
1 hr
  -> Thank you.

agree  Rusinterp
1 hr
  -> Thank you.

agree  Victor Yatsishin: а также с Татьяной
4 hrs
  -> Thank you.
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Sign mediation


Explanation:
L. S. Vygotsky and D. B. El'konin: *Sign mediation*

also:

The article can be seen as an extention of Vygotsky's emphasis on "sign systems"

*Tool and Sign* in the Development of the Child.
Analysis of *Sign Operations* of the Child. The Structure of Sign Operations. Genetic Analysis of the Sign Operation. Further Development of Sign Operations.

(The Collected Works of L.S. Vygotsky)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-18 20:18:14 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The author presents D. B. El\'konin\'s reflections on aggregate activity and sign mediation, based on analysis of L. S. Vygotsky\'s cultural-historical theory. These reflections lead to the notion of mediating open action as an action characterised by including into one person\'s actions the orientation to another person\'s actions.
http://www.voppsy.ru/journals_all/resume/1996/965/e965057.ht...

Natalia Bearden
Local time: 11:45
PRO pts in pair: 87

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tatiana Neroni: Natalia... Сколько же крови этот Выготский у всех переводчиков выпил за время обучения!!! :) История лингвистических учений - кошмар... Но полностью согласна со всеми значениями :).
1 hr
  -> Мне кажется, что бедняге подрисовали рожки some overly zealous апостолы жанра (судьба многих, увы и ах...) А по поводу крови: вы как, часто газетки на староанглийском почитываете? И вообще - сколько мусора в голове! Ой... :о(

agree  Rusinterp
1 hr
  -> Спасибо, Александра!

agree  Victor Yatsishin
4 hrs
  -> И Вам, Виктор :о)

agree  Liv Bliss: Solid research Natalia.
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thank you Liv!
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20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sign means


Explanation:
Can also be used as sign means of communication. Is used in Psychology, Linguistics for sure and probably somewhere else as well.

Olga Simon
Hungary
Local time: 20:45
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 465

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Victor Yatsishin
20 mins
  -> Спасибо.
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
sign language


Explanation:
После консультации дипломированным психолингвистом - преподавателем сурдоперевода.

Victor Yatsishin
Belarus
Local time: 22:45
PRO pts in pair: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tatiana Neroni
31 mins
  -> thanx

agree  Rusinterp: possible
51 mins
  -> thanx
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