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"крутиться"

English translation: wheeling and dealing

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01:05 Dec 27, 2010
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Slang
Russian term or phrase: "крутиться"
Those who grew up in the old country in the 70s and 80s would know what I mean by that: " "крутиться" as in go about your own business, maybe making a little cash on the side, and not necessarily sharing it with the taxman. Он крутится. Они крутятся потихоньку. В Одессе все крутятся, кто не дурак. This is not a translation, strictly speaking, but as I write my original text in English I can't help thinking in both my working languages, and sometimes find it hard reconciling one to the other. I would be particularly interested in hearing what US natives and semi-natives like myself have to say on the matter. Many thanks in advance. Merry whatever and happy everything, everyone!
The Misha
Local time: 05:40
English translation:wheeling and dealing
Explanation:
Once upon a time I translated Stanislav Govorukhin's "Великая криминальная револющия" (the filmscript, and the book). Fairly often I found it appropriate to translate крутиться as "wheeling and dealing," which even is similar in its derivation, although I'm not against "hustle," either.

Он крутится. He's a wheeler-dealer.
Они крутятся потихоньку. They do a bit of wheeling and dealing on the side(lines).
В Одессе все крутятся, кто не дурак. Everybody in Odessa who's not a complete idiot does some wheeling and dealing.

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Note added at 24 mins (2010-12-27 01:29:55 GMT)
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революция

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-12-27 02:44:18 GMT)
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Now that you've revealed the context, I wouldn't propose either wheeling-dealing or hustling (although it's true that "to hustle" can be used in the non-criminal sense, say, in sports - but if you use it in an economic context it immediately starts to sound shady). There are other options.

I'd have to bust my ass twice as hard. Use "behind" or "rear end," if "ass" is too vulgar for the context.
I'd have to sweat twice as hard / sweat it twice as hard.


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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-12-27 14:17:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, "bust my chops" did also come to mind as I was falling asleep last night.
Selected response from:

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 05:40
Grading comment
In the end, I decided to go with sweat it - as in "I would have to sweat it twice as hard" - which is just about perfect for what I want to say here. Of course, there is no indomitable Party line here and no one single "correct" answer. Many thanks to everyone for a great discussion.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +6wheeling and dealing
Rachel Douglas
4 +4hustling
Kiwiland Bear
4make moves
rns
4to be on the make
Mark Cole
4money- spinners hunting
Olga Rbl
3It would be hard graft to ...
David Knowles
3make money one way or another
Mikhail Kropotov


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
hustling


Explanation:
Automatic match popping up at least in my head. For ex.:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hustling
has:
- To obtain something by deceitful or illicit means
- To sell or get by questionable or aggressive means
- An illicit or unethical way of doing business or obtaining money

My take on it anyway.

Kiwiland Bear
New Zealand
Local time: 23:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Wow, that was fast, thanks. First, I found "hustling" a little too strong for my particular situation here, but then, on second thought, I realized I only got what I asked for, and it kind of works. What I am trying to say here (comparing food prices at home in Brooklyn and at a country store I recently visited in upstate New York) is that I'd have to hustle twice as hard if I had to pay that kind of prices for my daily groceries. Yeah, it works, even though freelance translation isn't strictly speaking a hustle. I should have thought of it myself, but didn't, so kudoz to you, kind sir. Many thanks.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mikhail Kropotov: "My take" - spoken like a true hustler, or maybe even a mobman ;) However, this would be strictly the wrong side of the law, while крутиться doesn't always mean that.
5 mins
  -> Thanks but no, hustler isn't strictly on the wrong side of the law. More likely a borderline, grey area case (see the refs above).

agree  James McVay: Depending on how The Misha is wording it, "on the hustle" could also work.
9 mins
  -> Thank you.

agree  Jack Doughty
6 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree  Michael Korovkin: absolutely! yes, yes, yes. In my view - the only competent response.
12 hrs
  -> Thank you :-)
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
make money one way or another


Explanation:
This wouldn't really mean 'not sharing with the taxman' but might imply something not so scrupulous.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2010-12-27 01:18:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

please read that as 'not exactly scrupulous'

Mikhail Kropotov
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 157
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
make moves


Explanation:
To participate in measures that will ensure future success or personal achievement.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=make moves

rns
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 15
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
It would be hard graft to ...


Explanation:
Having read the context, this might work. There is the verb "to graft" but it's not very common. It's also possibly UK rather than US.

In this meaning, it means hard, possibly boring and arduous, work, but does not indicate illegal or shady dealings. In fact, it's what people have to do when they can't wheel and deal!

David Knowles
Local time: 10:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 9

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Kiwiland Bear: Just a comment not on translation but the original: "крутиться" (or "вертеться") in this sense doesn't mean "boring and arduous [work]". Certainly not in Odessa. It's closer to nimble, fast/quick thinking, agile. Or yes, wheeling and dealing too:-)
1 day 6 hrs
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22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
wheeling and dealing


Explanation:
Once upon a time I translated Stanislav Govorukhin's "Великая криминальная револющия" (the filmscript, and the book). Fairly often I found it appropriate to translate крутиться as "wheeling and dealing," which even is similar in its derivation, although I'm not against "hustle," either.

Он крутится. He's a wheeler-dealer.
Они крутятся потихоньку. They do a bit of wheeling and dealing on the side(lines).
В Одессе все крутятся, кто не дурак. Everybody in Odessa who's not a complete idiot does some wheeling and dealing.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2010-12-27 01:29:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

революция

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-12-27 02:44:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Now that you've revealed the context, I wouldn't propose either wheeling-dealing or hustling (although it's true that "to hustle" can be used in the non-criminal sense, say, in sports - but if you use it in an economic context it immediately starts to sound shady). There are other options.

I'd have to bust my ass twice as hard. Use "behind" or "rear end," if "ass" is too vulgar for the context.
I'd have to sweat twice as hard / sweat it twice as hard.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2010-12-27 14:17:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, "bust my chops" did also come to mind as I was falling asleep last night.

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 05:40
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
In the end, I decided to go with sweat it - as in "I would have to sweat it twice as hard" - which is just about perfect for what I want to say here. Of course, there is no indomitable Party line here and no one single "correct" answer. Many thanks to everyone for a great discussion.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Rachel, this works too, except I don't think I could fit this in stylistically. See my comment to the "hustling" entry above. In any case, many thanks and Merry Christmas!

Asker: Now you put me in a quandary, Rachel. Sweat it fits right in for what I have in mind, and bust my ass (or chops) is also good. Let me sleep on it.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mark Berelekhis: Yep, I like this best.
21 mins
  -> Thanks, Mark.

agree  sokolniki
21 mins
  -> Thank you.

agree  Judith Hehir: This is precisely what came to my mind, too, Rachel.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Judith.

agree  Mikhail Kropotov: Lack of context as always. 'Bust my ass' sounds about right.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Mikhail.

agree  cyhul
8 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Angela Greenfield
1 day 2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Angela.
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
money- spinners hunting


Explanation:
Hustler has a clearly negative connotation which automatically makes it a bad match for the Russian крутиться.
Wheeling and dealing is a better version because it may be used in not so negative context but still assumes that a person is having an access to the powerful resources and powerful people. Example: "The Senator got the law passed by wheeling and dealing in Congress"... which is not always the case with крутиться. This Russian term means working hard and using all and every possible opportunity and resources not necessarily illegal or powerful.

So, may be it'll be nothing wrong if translate it in a descriptive manner

Just a suggestion.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2010-12-27 21:13:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also, I found this idiom that I think could make it out. "Work your fingers to the bone" So, I'm just working my finger to the bone to make a $ you know. Or I "work my tail off" - might not be a perfect equivalent but they are closer in meaning than the "hustler." I think КРУТИТСЯ originates from the Russian idiom "крутиться как белка в колесе" and originally it meant "working hard to make a decent living." So, I guess the author needs to evaluate his context and see what fits better.

http://ru.trend.az/life/speak/1489231.html

Olga Rbl
United States
Local time: 05:40
Native speaker of: Russian
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1 day 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
to be on the make


Explanation:
Which implies not necessary doing anything illegal, but fiddling a bit here and there; "on the fiddle" would be similar, but implies that that is you only source of income.

Mark Cole
Local time: 10:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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