convivencia de carácter singular, pública, notoria y permanente

English translation: cohabitation of an exclusive, public, widely known and lasting nature

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:convivencia de carácter singular, pública, notoria y permanente
English translation:cohabitation of an exclusive, public, widely known and lasting nature
Entered by: Charles Davis

00:35 Jan 17, 2019
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs / unión convivencial
Spanish term or phrase: convivencia de carácter singular, pública, notoria y permanente
Estimados/as: Estoy traduciendo un certificado de Unión Convivencial que traduje como "Certificate of Cohabitation" En una parte se lee lo siguiente:

XXX y XXX manifiestan que mantienen una convivencia de carácter singular, pública, notoria y permanente, y que comparten un proyecto de vida en común.

Mi versión:

XXX y XXX declare living together in a singular, public, well-known and permanent way and have a life project in common.

Me gustaría conocer su opinión al respecto. Muchas gracias.
Federico Pasquale
Argentina
Local time: 11:35
cohabitation of an exclusive, public, widely known and lasting nature
Explanation:
Another variant to add to the mix.

I think cohabitation is the right word for convivencia. It does of course mean living together, but not merely sharing the same address (which is a necessary but not sufficient condition); here it means living together like a married couple, which normally, though not necessarily, implies a sexual relationship (sex is an expectation but not an indispensable condition of marriage or civil union, except in canon law). Although "living together" carries that implication in English, at least in the UK, I think it would be better to use the word "cohabitation", which is recognised legally (and in sociological terms) as meaning that.

"Singular" means just the two of them, monogamously, with no other co-existing quasi-marital relationships. I think "exclusive" is the best word for this. (Strictly speaking it is not just monogamous; non-exclusive monogamous cohabitation does exist in anthropology, though it's very unusual; in a syndiasmian family several monogamous couples cohabit in a communal household).

"Public" is fine for "público". "Notorio" is very close to it in meaning, and could almost be omitted; its legal meaning is not just unconcealed or open but widely known among the members of their community.

"Permanente" doesn't, of course, mean impossible to terminate, but intended to be permanent. I think you could use "permanent", but I suggest "lasting", since that is really the sense of it.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2cohabitation of an exclusive, public, widely known and lasting nature
Charles Davis
3 +1clearly live together publicly, openly and are in a permanent relationship
David Hollywood
4 -1demonstrate that they maintain a cohabitation that is unique, public, relevant and permanent
Blacjak
3… a cohabitation, which is special, well-known and ongoing in nature …
Marco Paz
3 -1declare/state that they maintain a public, notorious and permanent cohabitation relationship
Manuel Cedeño Berrueta


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
… a cohabitation, which is special, well-known and ongoing in nature …


Explanation:
...

Marco Paz
Local time: 09:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: Sigh...pure translationese
6 mins
  -> Well, it is ok to disagree! Thanks for your comment.

agree  Blacjak: I like your translation, but why didn't you translate the word "notoria"? Since "pública" also implies "well-known," I still think "notoria" should be translated as a separate word as the original translator did.
18 hrs
  -> Well, I was thinking "well-known" would convey the idea of the expression "pública y notoria”. Also, I could sense “notorious” is a false friend. Thanks!
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
clearly live together publicly, openly and are in a permanent relationship


Explanation:
you're really asking multiple questions here but might help you along

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 02:53:07 GMT)
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no puedo encontrar un equivalente exacto pero es el sentido...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 02:54:22 GMT)
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en realidad no podés preguntar tantas expresiones al mismo tiempo pero bueno....

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 02:56:08 GMT)
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vamos a ver que sucede y suerte

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:14:54 GMT)
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and are on the same path/page in terms of how they want to live their life

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:16:32 GMT)
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this is the gist so you see what you can do with it y suerte

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:17:41 GMT)
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me encanta ayudar y espero que te haya ayudado

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:19:29 GMT)
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what do you think on this Chris?

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:20:10 GMT)
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y saludos :)

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-01-17 03:23:39 GMT)
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switching it a bit

David Hollywood
Local time: 11:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 260

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  neilmac: Nice, plain speaking solution. Could be expressed slightly more formally for a certificate if necessary.
8 hrs
  -> thanks Neil and might need some tweaking I agree

agree  AllegroTrans: The only answer so far that actually is fluent, sensible English of a style that is likely to be used for officialese
11 hrs
  -> thanks AT

disagree  Blacjak: Why didn't you translate "singular"? You also didn't translate "notoria" and inserted "openly" for no reason, and "living together" does not meet cohabitation requirements. You say that it's a free translation(by meaning only)-which is not for legal docs.
16 hrs
  -> thanks for your comments Blacjak but I have translated every aspect of this ... check it out and my only doubt is the register... before disagreeing have a look at how this can be translated in terms of the meaning (avoiding false friend translations)
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
declare/state that they maintain a public, notorious and permanent cohabitation relationship


Explanation:
That’s what I would say

Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
Local time: 10:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 56

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: Notorious is TOTALLY a false friend here; check it in an English dictionary and you'll see what I mean!!!
30 mins
  -> Many thanks, Chris. This is a false friend which I was not aware of

neutral  Blacjak: "Notoria" cannot be translated "notorious" here. This is a certificate of a common law marriage and being "notorious" is not required for that. :) You have shown one error is not reason to disagree, so I changed my vote. Read my "unique" explanation.
5 hrs
  -> Thank you, Blacjack. It’s not “unique” either, I believe. The sentence also reads that the affiants made an affidavit, not that they “demonstrated” their relationship
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
demonstrate that they maintain a cohabitation that is unique, public, relevant and permanent


Explanation:
"manifiestan que mantienen una convivencia de carácter singular, pública, notoria y permanente, y que comparten un proyecto de vida en común"

"demonstrate that they maintain a cohabitation that is unique, public, relevant and permanent, and that they share a common life goal"

I would choose "common life goal" in light of the subject matter instead of "common life plan."

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Note added at 18 hrs (2019-01-17 19:17:27 GMT)
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"Unique" because they cannot have a bigamous common law marriage. The implication is that it is a monogamous relationship- however, there is a Spanish word for "monogamous" and that was not used. The underlying meaning is that this couple has maintained a meaningful monogamous relationship that they have publicly declared and they are not seeing others on the side. However, to translate it like that would be deviating too much from what is actually written.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2019-01-17 19:31:04 GMT)
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To further clarify, a "cohabitation" in the common law sense of the word means a sexual relationship. Since you would not say "demonstrate that they maintain sexual relationship that is,,,' (without the article "a") and you are using "cohabitation" as a replacement for "sexual relationship" instead of simply as the word meaning to live together (with or without a sexual relationship), the "a" needs to be retained.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2019-01-17 19:57:31 GMT)
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When I say "Common law," I mean "Common law marriage" in case that wasn't clear.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2019-01-17 20:54:51 GMT)
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Finally, this is a "Certificate of Cohabitation" or a Common Law Marriage Certificate. In this statement that is being questioned, the two people who have entered into this common law marriage are attesting that they have met the four requirements of it. To leave out a requirement or simply translate the statement so that it "sounds natural" is to possibly invalidate the certificate. I don't think a person here believes legalese "sounds natural" but words, such as "cohabitation" are important legal terms that cannot be changed because we, personally, would not use them in day-to-day speech.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2019-01-17 23:20:34 GMT)
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I will agree with "declare" if the context is that XXX and XXX are making the statement. I used "demonstrate" because it is not clear from the context if XXX and XXX are making the statement or someone else is making the statement about them. I have seen both.


    Reference: http://dle.rae.es/?id=QeqV7rN
    Reference: http://www.magazinespain.com/la-importancia-de-un-proyecto-c...
Blacjak
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: "maintain a cohabitation" simply is not natural English, and how can "unique" convey any meaning here?
2 hrs
  -> This is for a Common Law Marriage certificate. Cohabitation has a specific meaning https://nationalparalegal.edu/public_documents/courseware_as...

neutral  Charles Davis: I think "exclusive" is the best word for "singular". "Notorio" doesn't mean relevant. // It can mean "relevante" (destacado, importante) sometimes, but here it must have meaning 1 ("público y sabido por todos"). "Público y notorio" is a set legal phrase.
19 hrs
  -> According to the link I already cited, it does: http://dle.rae.es/?id=QeqV7rN This is a dictionary even the ATA allows you to use on their test.
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1 day 6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
cohabitation of an exclusive, public, widely known and lasting nature


Explanation:
Another variant to add to the mix.

I think cohabitation is the right word for convivencia. It does of course mean living together, but not merely sharing the same address (which is a necessary but not sufficient condition); here it means living together like a married couple, which normally, though not necessarily, implies a sexual relationship (sex is an expectation but not an indispensable condition of marriage or civil union, except in canon law). Although "living together" carries that implication in English, at least in the UK, I think it would be better to use the word "cohabitation", which is recognised legally (and in sociological terms) as meaning that.

"Singular" means just the two of them, monogamously, with no other co-existing quasi-marital relationships. I think "exclusive" is the best word for this. (Strictly speaking it is not just monogamous; non-exclusive monogamous cohabitation does exist in anthropology, though it's very unusual; in a syndiasmian family several monogamous couples cohabit in a communal household).

"Public" is fine for "público". "Notorio" is very close to it in meaning, and could almost be omitted; its legal meaning is not just unconcealed or open but widely known among the members of their community.

"Permanente" doesn't, of course, mean impossible to terminate, but intended to be permanent. I think you could use "permanent", but I suggest "lasting", since that is really the sense of it.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 483
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Blacjak: This is a good translation. I really like "exclusive." However, you seem to only know the first meaning of "notoria." As I responded before check here: http://dle.rae.es/?id=QeqV7rN
2 days 8 hrs
  -> Thanks very much :-) I'm convinced the first is the one here: "Entendemos por 'público' a aquello que es 'notorio , patente, manifiesto, visto o sabido por todos" http://escribanos.org.ar/rnotarial/wp-content/uploads/2015/0...

agree  Marco Paz
2 days 19 hrs
  -> Many thanks, Marco :-)
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