régimen económico del matrimonio de comunidad absoluta

English translation: (US-Am.) financial matrimonial régime of tenancy by the entirety

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:régimen económico del matrimonio de comunidad absoluta
English translation:(US-Am.) financial matrimonial régime of tenancy by the entirety
Entered by: Adrian MM.

17:06 Nov 7, 2019
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs
Spanish term or phrase: régimen económico del matrimonio de comunidad absoluta
The context is a Guatemalan marriage certificate. Phrase: "Los contrayentes adoptaron vivir bajo el régimen económico del matrimonio el de comunidad absoluta."

I think there are two terms at play here - "régimen económico del matrimonio" (or I've also seen this as "régimen económico matrimonial") and "comunidad absoluta."

The first seems potentially acceptable as it's literal translation "economic regime of marriage" (Ref. https://www.notariado.org/liferay/web/notariado/regimen-econ...

The second term, "comunidad absoluta," I believe refers to the código civil de Guatemala, and states that all assets are mutual property and shall be divided in the case that the marriage is dissolved. (Ref. http://leydeguatemala.com/codigo-civil-de-guatemala/comunida...

My question is how to state the equivalent concept in U.S. legalese. After combing the forums, I found somewhat conflicting recommendations: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/other/1380167-... (recommends "total community property system") and https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/comunidad-absoluta.1... (argues that "community property" is a separate concept).

Would appreciate ideas!
Stephanie Ament
United States
Local time: 01:07
(US-Am.) financial matrimonial régime of community-like tenancy by the entirety
Explanation:
Community property: some US Federal States that do not espouse the 'community property' doctrine (cue: UK ProZ translators' objections to use of the word community) have adopted 'equitable distribution' statutes to achieve a similar distribution of the marital estate upon the dissolution of the marriage >

Tenancy by the entirety: a divorce severs the tenancies by the entirety (England & Wales: approx. joint tenancies with automatic survivorship) and usually creates a 'tenancy in-common' (separate properCommunity property is similar to, but should be distinguished from, tenancy by the entirety and joint tenancy. See American Law of Property §7.1 et seq (1952)> Barron's US Law Dictionary

Tenancy by the Entirety:

'An interest in property that can be held only between a husband and wife in which each party has a right of survivorship over the property and which neither party can terminate without the consent of the other.

A tenancy by the entirety is a form of concurrent ownership that can only exist between a husband and wife. The tenancy by the entirety requires the same four unities as the joint tenancy. It is a sort of “super” (c.f absolute community) joint tenancy. A tenancy by the entirety exists as though the husband and wife own the property as one person.'



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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-11-08 18:23:47 GMT)
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You are welcome.

1. no need for community-like, included only to reflect the source text. Note: I have eschewed community-based, community-modelled or predicated on the community system of marital / matrimonial property.

2. despite your ref., 'absolute' joint tenancy is not a US-Am. category, whereas 'tenancy by the entirety' - a similar concept - is. Absolute would also be confusable with the UK monarch's absolute title to all land in the country and out of which either freehold, commonhold (condo) or leasehold estates can be 'carved'
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Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
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Summary of answers provided
3(US-Am.) financial matrimonial régime of community-like tenancy by the entirety
Adrian MM.
Summary of reference entries provided
Refs.
Taña Dalglish

  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(US-Am.) financial matrimonial régime of community-like tenancy by the entirety


Explanation:
Community property: some US Federal States that do not espouse the 'community property' doctrine (cue: UK ProZ translators' objections to use of the word community) have adopted 'equitable distribution' statutes to achieve a similar distribution of the marital estate upon the dissolution of the marriage >

Tenancy by the entirety: a divorce severs the tenancies by the entirety (England & Wales: approx. joint tenancies with automatic survivorship) and usually creates a 'tenancy in-common' (separate properCommunity property is similar to, but should be distinguished from, tenancy by the entirety and joint tenancy. See American Law of Property §7.1 et seq (1952)> Barron's US Law Dictionary

Tenancy by the Entirety:

'An interest in property that can be held only between a husband and wife in which each party has a right of survivorship over the property and which neither party can terminate without the consent of the other.

A tenancy by the entirety is a form of concurrent ownership that can only exist between a husband and wife. The tenancy by the entirety requires the same four unities as the joint tenancy. It is a sort of “super” (c.f absolute community) joint tenancy. A tenancy by the entirety exists as though the husband and wife own the property as one person.'



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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-11-08 18:23:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You are welcome.

1. no need for community-like, included only to reflect the source text. Note: I have eschewed community-based, community-modelled or predicated on the community system of marital / matrimonial property.

2. despite your ref., 'absolute' joint tenancy is not a US-Am. category, whereas 'tenancy by the entirety' - a similar concept - is. Absolute would also be confusable with the UK monarch's absolute title to all land in the country and out of which either freehold, commonhold (condo) or leasehold estates can be 'carved'


    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/other/1380167-r...
    Reference: http://www.thebalance.com/tenants-by-entirety-versus-joint-t...
Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Adrian - this is helpful. I had not come across "tenancy by the entirity." Do you think it's necessary to include the qualifier "community-like" in the translation?

Asker: Looking further, would "absolute joint tenancy" make sense? Ref. https://realestate.findlaw.com/buying-a-home/difference-between-joint-tenancy-and-tenancy-in-common.html; https://cite.case.law/ad/230/1/

Asker: Addendums noted - gracias nuevamente!

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Reference comments


7 hrs
Reference: Refs.

Reference information:
Previous ProZ entries:
(1) Entry by Charles Davis. BTW, where is Charles Davis?

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-spanish/law-contracts/...
English term or phrase: matrimonial property scheme (regime)
Spanish translation: régimen de bienes del matrimonio / régimen económico matrimonial

Just for info, a type of community property system known as "comunidad (or) sociedad de gananciales" is the default marital property system in Spanish regions governed by the Spanish Civil Code. A separate property system ("régimen de separación de bienes") is the default system in Catalonia and the Balearic Islands. Default marital property systems in other regions include "comunicación foral de bienes" in certain territories of the Basque Country, "consorcio conyugal" in Aragon and "sociedad conyugal de conquistas" in Navarre.

Rebecca Jowers, another trusted colleague wrote:
Common law countries traditionally observe strict separate property rules, with the exception in the US of the community property schemes in Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas,
Washington and Wisconsin. (Alaska has an “opt-in” system allowing spouses the option to make their property community property.) Collectively these are generally known as “community property states” in contrast to the other “separate property states,” sometimes also referred to as “common law states.” In community property states “community property” is normally defined as all property acquired during the marriage, including money and wages and items purchased with that money. “Separate property” is usually property owned by either spouse before marriage, or acquired by gift or inheritance or purchased with separate funds during the marriage.



https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/other/1380167-...
Spanish term or phrase: Régimen económico de comunidad absoluta
Explanation:
whereby all present and future property without restriction becomes part of marital community
English translation: total community property system


https://www.spanishdict.com/answers/215835/what-is-the-engli...
The first one "comunidad absoluta" may be the equivalent to "total community property", where property (current and future) becomes a part of the marital community.

https://www.clarionsolicitors.com/blog/property-and-divorce-...
Another matrimonial property regime is Community of Property, and this provides that all property in the marriage is owned jointly, except for gifts and inheritances. This is known in France as communauté réduite aux acquits; in Spain as sociedad de gananciales; in Germany as Errungenschaftsgemeinschaft; and in Italy as comunione degli acquisti.

Further, there is a regime called Absolute Community of Property where all pre-marital and marital property is owned jointly. In France this is known as communauté universelle; in Spain as comunidad absoluta de bienes; in Germany as allgemeine Gütergemeinschaft; and in Italy as communione universale dei beni.

Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 186
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you for providing these additional references.

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